Oregon Sportsmans warehouse files lawsuit

[mm93]

I would guess they sell more fishing stuff vs guns by a lot at least in Hillsboro. This is on a regular day with no pandemic or gun law scare. Would be interesting to see the actual % though.

They likely do sell more volume of fishing stuff, but it takes hundreds of fishing related items to equal the profit from one gun sale.

 

[WillametteWill]

Firearms sales probably drive 40% of their business the other 40% is fishing and 20% camping.

If they are like most "sporting goods stores" 50% to 80% is clothing/footwear regarding profit. Not the margin on guns and ammo like most other products. That's why several of the bigger chains have gone under in the past few decades. Too much competition in this area. Don't have their P&L sheet so just speculating.

 

[dinky450]

They likely do sell more volume of fishing stuff, but it takes hundreds of fishing related items to equal the profit from one gun sale.

Yeah I don't think so. I used to know people thar work at sportsmans there is more mark up on fishing gear.

 

[BuckB]

So the backlog is taking weeks to get through. Legally you should be able to pick up a firearm after 3 days, since Sportsmans are withholding peoples purchases, what are the legal ramifications of that? Can Sportsman's Warehouse get sued for denying peoples constitutional right?
I always get bumped to the front of the line so I am actually "asking for a friend".

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So the backlog is taking weeks to get through. Legally you should be able to pick up a firearm after 3 days, since Sportsmans are withholding peoples purchases, what are the legal ramifications of that? Can Sportsman's Warehouse get sued for denying peoples constitutional right?
I always get bumped to the front of the line so I am actually "asking for a friend".

I would tell your friend to cancel sportsman's and buy from an ffl that is doing 3 day transfers instead.

 

[MichaelH]

So the backlog is taking weeks to get through. Legally you should be able to pick up a firearm after 3 days, since Sportsmans are withholding peoples purchases, what are the legal ramifications of that? Can Sportsman's Warehouse get sued for denying peoples constitutional right?
I always get bumped to the front of the line so I am actually "asking for a friend".

No. First only government can really deny anyone’s constitutional rights. Second the “three day rule” is discretionary. Third following the three day rule would certainly open a deep pocket FFL up to the possibility of needing to defend against a negligence claim if they released a firearm after 3 days w/o a bgc confirmation that is later used in a crime causing injury.

 

[WillametteWill]

Can Sportsman's Warehouse get sued for denying peoples constitutional right?

Rant /on
No. Shop elsewhere. No one is forcing anyone to shop anywhere. Constitutional law 101. It protects the government from forcing things onto the people. Taking away God given rights. The government is not colluding with Sportsman's (like it apparently did with Twitter), which can be a constitutional issue. The three day release is a "may" not a "shall" so there is no law being violated. Can they get sued and destroy their reputation if they release a gun in 3 days to the next mass shooter? Yes, yes they can. People want a free market economy, yet they want to control those who have companies and are taking the risks.

Sorry to be a jerk about this but

Rant /off

 

[Member 5605]

Sorry to be a jerk about this but

100%

Your dollars, your choice.

This isn’t government forced education based on where your house is.

 

[Danall]

The three day release is a "may" not a "shall" so there is no law being violated. Can they get sued and destroy their reputation if they release a gun in 3 days to the next mass shooter? Yes, yes they can.

Everyone one here knows it is a may and not shall. Yup they can get sued, anyone can get sued by almost anyone for anything....but of the literal millions of firearms transferred under the 3 day provision, has any one shop been successfully sued?....that's all i am asking.

 

[Yarome]

Everyone one here knows it is a may and not shall. Yup they can get sued, anyone can get sued by almost anyone for anything....but of the literal millions of firearms transferred under the 3 day provision, has any one shop been successfully sued?....that's all i am asking.

It doesn't have to be successful to potentially ruin a business. Reputation harm, yes. Pressure and scrutiny from the alphabet, more than likely. Financial trouble fighting a suit... depends on how good and much insurance they carry.

Doing it as SOP I think the risk exposure is too great, but short term to make a statement, to push back and show support of the 2A... the risk is probably minimal(?). I guess that depends on what percentage of denials an FFL typically get's and out of those denials, what percentage of those persons was later convicted of a violent crime with a firearm. Even if they didn't get one through an FFL, they likely would have gotten one through other means... right?

I don't know those answers, but I would be surprised if it wasn't only the very rarest of occurances. I could be way off base though.

 

[Danall]

It doesn't have to be successful to potentially ruin a business. Reputation harm, yes. Pressure and scrutiny from the alphabet, more than likely. Financial trouble fighting a suit... depends on how good and much insurance they carry.

Thanks for the response, that is good point i had not considered.
the following are some numbers i dug up that might be germane?

National figures from NICS report
in the period from Nov 1999 to Dec 2021 there were 411,575,054 background checks submitted.

In 2020 there were 39,695,315 processed.
Of those 185,384 were denied. Less than 1/2 of 1 percent.
What i don't know is how many of those denials were prior to the 3 day, or after. My guess (and hope) most would have been caught immediately with the 3 day period?

So the concern from shop owners would be those that would not pass background after the 3 day period, that i would surmise is a very low figure.

One (unverified) figure i ran across is that in a 10 year period 35,000 firearms were turned over to applicants that subsequently failed.
if one estimates approx 100 to 200 million background checks in a 10 year period, well do the math and the percentage of turned over firearms to those that subsequently did not pass is extremely low. (divide 35,000 by 150 million or 200 million to get an idea of risk factor.
Is there an undue paranoia (media influenced) about the actual risk or danger of firearms transferred to someone who would not pass? Have some gun dealers unfortunately fallen into this trap? Is that not exactly what the anti-gun folks desire? dunno

 

[MichaelH]

Up until the pandemic, there was almost no wait in OR even w/o a CHL. I would bet that there are similar times for the states that don’t administer the program and the FFL has direct access. The criticism of the three day rule started when it was discovered that the Charleston Church shooter got his firearm because of the three-day rule despite some questions about whether his check eould have come back clean.

 

[Danall]

Up until the pandemic, there was almost no wait in OR even w/o a CHL. I would bet that there are similar times for the states that don’t administer the program and the FFL has direct access.

Correct, the NICS report that addresses background checks for States that allow FFL DIRECT to NICS reports just shy of 90 percent cleared INstantly (30 minutes) and around 95 percent within 3 days.

 

[WillametteWill]

National figures from NICS report
in the period from Nov 1999 to Dec 2021 there were 411,575,054 background checks submitted.

This is an interesting statistic since every time I see the number of guns owned by Americans in media it is placed between 300m and 400m. I've been hearing that number for decades. Knowing that a single BGC can be multiple guns, betting the more accurate number is likely closer to 800m.

 

[MichaelH]

This is an interesting statistic since every time I see the number of guns owned by Americans in media it is placed between 300m and 400m. I've been hearing that number for decades. Knowing that a single BGC can be multiple guns, betting the more accurate number is likely closer to 800m.

Used guns are a substantial portion.

 

[WillametteWill]

Used guns are a substantial portion.

I'm only on my first cup of tea, duh to me. Thanks for helping my wake up.

 

[Yarome]

I'm only on my first cup of tea, duh to me. Thanks for helping my wake up.

Tea?? Well... there's your problem right there....

 

[WillametteWill]

Tea?? Well... there's your problem right there....

Remember Boston, December 16, 1773.

It was a tea party...not a coffee klatch!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Remember Boston, December 16, 1773.

It was a tea party...not a coffee klatch!

Hmmm potential new meme/theme for patriots defending against tyranny such as unconstitutional gun laws...

This



Not this

 

[Danall]

Up until the pandemic, there was almost no wait in OR even w/o a CHL. I would bet that there are similar times for the states that don’t administer the program and the FFL has direct access. The criticism of the three day rule started when it was discovered that the Charleston Church shooter got his firearm because of the three-day rule despite some questions about whether his check eould have come back clean.

Actually OSP FICS does not have a stellar record of fast processing, even prior to any OR114.
Data from OSP FICS annual reports show
2017-56 percent took longer than 3 days
2018-51 percent took longer than 3 days
2019-51 percent took longer than 3 days
2020-88 percent took longer than 3 days
2021-61 percent took longer than 3 days

2020 was the covid year and 41 percent took 121-365 days.
So the system never was that efficient with its manual processing compared to the national FICS system that process close to 90 percent immediately and approx 95 percent in 3 days...big contrast regardless of any 114 influence.