Funny you mention it. A summer or two back I read the three book alternative history series The Hot War (Bombs Away, Fallout, and Armistice) by Harry Turtledove. Several of this American GI characters poo-poo the M1 Carbine and, from my recollection, at least two used captured PPSh-41s instead and extoll the virtues of the firearm. So the concept lingers on in print.One thing that I've always found humorously ironic, is the infamous "weakness" of the carbine round. I've been a carbine fan for a very long time, so I've heard all the stories and myths, including how the pathetic little carbine bullets wouldn't even penetrate the heavy winter coats that the Chinese soldiers wore in Korea. This myth is often repeated as fact, yet at the same time the armor-piercing power of the 7.62x25mm round is legend. The .30 Carbine bullet is significantly heavier and faster, yet it has the worse reputation somehow.
I can say that the gel tests somewhere in this thread opened my eyes! I never thought it was a toy, but didn't think it was as good as what I saw there! I see it as a close quarters compliment to the M1 rifle. In a lot of ways US troops had the equivalent of the AK-47 long before it existed in the M1 Carbine.I've always loved the little M1 carbine, since I bought mine at a garage sale back in the late '80s. I have no idea how many thousands of rounds I've fired through it since. A couple years ago the extractor broke so I replaced all the springs too while I was at it. Wow, made a new gun out of it!
I would be fine with the carbine, since I have one already and am very comfortable with it and how it shoots. Mine is an original '43 Underwood that has always been very reliable with anything I shoot through it, FMJ, SP, and cast lead. I can see where for most people the 5.56 AR would be the logical choice though, for all the practical reasons mentioned.
One thing that I've always found humorously ironic, is the infamous "weakness" of the carbine round. I've been a carbine fan for a very long time, so I've heard all the stories and myths, including how the pathetic little carbine bullets wouldn't even penetrate the heavy winter coats that the Chinese soldiers wore in Korea. This myth is often repeated as fact, yet at the same time the armor-piercing power of the 7.62x25mm round is legend. The .30 Carbine bullet is significantly heavier and faster, yet it has the worse reputation somehow.
Yes, I know one is a pistol and the other is a rifle, so expectations are different. I've just always thought it was funny. Long ago I had an acquaintance who hunted deer with his carbine. He told me it worked fine in the brushy northwest woods, where shots over a hundred yards are rare. He said he chose his shots carefully and loved the light kick of the carbine that allowed for quick, accurate followup shots.
My mistake. Ruger Model 44 it was, a semiauto carbine that shot .44 magnum and stopped being made in 1986ishThe little carbine has always been in a sort of a class of it's own. It's not a submachine gun, even the M2, because it's more powerful and accurate, and clearly meant to be a rifle.
Nor is it an "assault rifle", even the M2, because the round is more of a magnum handgun cartridge, not quite an "intermediate rifle" cartridge.
I suppose in some ways the closest thing would be a "pistol caliber carbine", because the round is more like a magnum pistol round than anything else. It's still more "rifle" than any PCC I know of.
Is there anything else out there that really compares with the M1 carbine? I love the carbine, but it really is a bit of an odd duck.
Good points.I agree that the 5.56 is generally superior for all the reasons others have stated. I'll make three in favor of the M1 Carbine .30: 1) If you shoot it more in normal times, you'll be more proficient in a SHTF situation...and they are FUN to shoot! 2) The M1 Carbine is a little easier to get new shooters oriented to, so it could fill that role nicely. 3) In any "in between" phase before all law and order breaks down, I think an M1 Carbine would be easier to move around with, because it doesn't look "evil", but this a very minor point. (I have a couple AR's and got my first M1 Carbine a year ago...and it IS very handy and really fun to shoot.)
Interesting. They touched slightly on whether the carbine is a true assault rifle, or a PCC. I've always thought that it's not really either one. It's semantics of course, depends on the definition you use. At that time, it was definitely more powerful than any handgun other than the relatively new .357 Magnum. It was patterned after the .32 Winchester Self-Loading round, which was definitely a rifle cartridge, though a smaller one. I think the argument can be made that it's really a precursor "assault rifle", though nowadays we tend to look at it as more of a PCC, and the original intent was more of a PDW.Somewhat germane to the topic.
Ok, just to clarify, which bullet ogive am I supposed to be looking at?I don't think I would worry too much about BC as I don't see this cartridge being effect beyond a few hundred yards
When you look at the bullet ogive portion compare it to a factory round. It's probably as long as will work in both magazine and chamber
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Look at the FMJ ogive. It's short but easy to feed. It's a lot closer to a bullet designed for a 30-30 WCF than a nice slippery one for a 308. Main thing is that it keeps within the OAL and shaped to feed well. After that it's weight and BC, but you aren't going to get a very hard one within the constraints of the OAL.Ok, just to clarify, which bullet ogive am I supposed to be looking at?
As for BC, there will probably be a slight increase in effective range, but as you say, we're still only talking about a couple of hundred yards max. However, superior BC can also allow for a higher percentage of retained energy downrange and can aid in accuracy.
That Speer load you mentioned in a later post sounds like a winner, as well.
Super neat-o. I came across a few of those whilst exploring big-bore single-actions this year. (That fascination disappeared as fast as it arrived; no idea why and long since given up analyzing such. And I just lost my train of thought.)
Thanks CountryGent, now just gotta find more ammo for itSuper neat-o. I came across a few of those whilst exploring big-bore single-actions this year. (That fascination disappeared as fast as it arrived; no idea why and long since given up analyzing such. And I just lost my train of thought.)
Anywho, 'gratz on the fine Ruger.