Poll: SHTF Carbine: 5.56㎜ versus .30 Carbine

[CountryGent]

So, a trip to the home range,* and seeing some footage from the Watts Riots got me to thinking about this:

What do you consider the better SHTF cartridge. The definition we'll use for said is: a self-loading carbine used by private citizens or local law enforcement in a disaster situation.

Option One: The venerable .30 Carbine. Developed around the time of the biggest conflict in human history. The most numerically produced rifle in American history, the M1 Carbine, has soldiered on in the hands of military personnel, law enforcement, and private citizens for decades. And has been used by both friend and foe on every continent. The little thirty-caliber is no longer the hip new thing, to put it mildly, but can still hold it's own.

Carbines in said are generally light, handy, and feature decent capacity (15 and 30 round magazines being standard.). Time was they were a dime a dozen, but they now go for premiums.

Option Two: Just as venerable, the Cold War classic made famous by the Armalite line. It has served as the primary American military rifle cartridge longer than any other. Used by the standing armies of the free world (and plenty others), countless law enforcement, and tens of millions of armed citizens, it would be impossible to argue with the popularity of the 5.56㎜ NATO.

As with the first, carbines are generally light, handy, and readily available to most. Ammo on tap is 20 or 30 rounds, but larger options do exist. ARs are, according to most reports, the most popular selling firearm in the US and can be had in a dizzying array of configurations and price points.

So, what say you, the .30 or the .223 for when things go bad in a hurry? Thanks for sharing!

* These lil' carbines tagged along.

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[Member 34319]

The AR, everyone and their grandmother has one these days. The police use them as does our military. In any scenario, you'll have millions of them out there to take parts from, collect magazines from, and likely ammo in every nook and cranny of this country for it.

 

[Savage Jav]

If it was 1958, M1 carbine. Modern days 556 is king

 

[TTSX]

It's really hard to deny the power 3k ft/sec has on soft targets. It's a small round, yes but still a bonafide rifle round. .30 carbine is a compromise and while I'm sure it has its place, it can't do what a 5.56 can do and a 5.56 can do nearly everything a .30 carbine can and more.

 

[Longwalkhome]

30 carbine is light and handy but doesn't reach out there like 556 does. 556 folks tend to add so much weight in accessories that it's a bear to carry.

I am old so I have war stories friends have shared. On carpenter I worked with was a Marine in WWII Pacific theater, said the carbine worked fine.

 

[Member 34319]

Another thing to add, your picture @CountryGent speaks volumes. Look at the two and they are the same length. Yes, you could make the other on smaller and add a can, but that picture proves a valuable point, that one of those two is not equal to the other.

 

[CountryGent]

Another thing to add, your picture @CountryGent speaks volumes. Look at the two and they are the same length. Yes, you could make the other on smaller and add a can, but that picture proves a valuable point, that one of those two is not equal to the other.

Good eye and excellent point. Though, in fairness, neither are stock:

• The AR I put together and SBRed/suppressed. Barrel length on that one is 10½". The can in place puts it closer to "normal" length.
• The M1 Carbine someone, not me, turned it into a sporter back in the day.

I may be off-beat on this one, but I actually prefer the M1 carbine setup. Granted, these are only two specimens, and modified ones at that.

Parenthetically, their cartridges are close, but certainly different.

 

[ATCclears]

5.56 since likely more common and available.

 

[USMC-03]

There was a time when 30 Carbine ammo was nearly as commonplace as .22 LR. So, after I graduated high school, I found a Universal carbine in a local sporting goods store on sale for $99, missing the rear sight - easy fix. A few 30 round magazines from a gun show and I was in business for a beginner training rifle. Wish I still had it...

Ammunition availability is the only real downside to the M1 carbine now. Light weight, quick handling, low recoil, easy to operate, reliable and reasonably accurate to a couple of hundred yards. Perfectly adequate for defense in a suburban or semi-rural environment as long as used within its limitations - it's a carbine, not a rifle.

That said, the 5.56/.223 is usually the way to go these days; commonality with your mutual defense team and larger tribe is preferred. My choice these days.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Before covid ammo was no problem. Korea was shipping huge quantities of military ball in bandoleers and stripper clips, 1080 rnds for $600. Korean 30 round mags were cheap and lots of them. Great firearm for women.

 

[Alexx1401]

I do not own an AR in .223 any more and really have no desire for one as shooting them here is such a hassle. I do LOVE the old M-1 Carbines a LOT, and still kick myself that I did not hang on to a couple from back in the day when they were cheap. Since they are sure not cheap any more. Only reason I voted 5.56 for this was if all breaks down it would be FAR easier to get more 5.56 ammo that it would be to keep getting M-1 ammo.

 

[billdeserthills]

Until seeing your pic I had forgotten about the M1 carbine I once had mounted in a Fagen thumbhole stock similar to yours--I used to love that gun but I think one of my lawyers wound up with it

 

[Siglvr]

5.56 is great for walking long distances. Light weight. However, for urban issues (SHTF, Watts Riots ) nothing would beat a mag fed Semi Auto Shotgun.

 

[CountryGent]

Until seeing your pic I had forgotten about the M1 carbine I once had mounted in a Fagen thumbhole stock similar to yours--I used to love that gun but I think one of my lawyers wound up with it

Interesting. I did not know the name of the stock type. (I'm finding hits with "Fajen" rather than "Fagen". Will have do some reading. )

 

[Longwalkhome]

See if this works...

Mannlicher Sporting M1 Carbine

Commercial M1 Carbines

www.m1carbinesinc.com

 

[Savage Jav]

There was a time when 30 Carbine ammo was nearly as commonplace as .22 LR. So, after I graduated high school, I found a Universal carbine in a local sporting goods store on sale for $99, missing the rear sight - easy fix. A few 30 round magazines from a gun show and I was in business for a beginner training rifle. Wish I still had it...

Ammunition availability is the only real downside to the M1 carbine now. Light weight, quick handling, low recoil, easy to operate, reliable and reasonably accurate to a couple of hundred yards. Perfectly adequate for defense in a suburban or semi-rural environment as long as used within its limitations - it's a carbine, not a rifle.

That said, the 5.56/.223 is usually the way to go these days; commonality with your mutual defense team and larger tribe is preferred. My choice these days.

And easy to drop a red dot on it via ultimak

 

[po18guy]

Kind of apples and oranges, but both would serve well. Re: stoppages, it is really nice to be able to see the entire action from above. Modern 110HPs improve the cartridge immensely. SHTF seems like it would be primarily short range. We're talking urban here.

 

[Tony617]

I keep my AR simple with iron sights, a two point sling, and a LED light.

 

[CamoDeafie]

There's a reason my first AR build is .223 Wylde for 5.56 ammo. My second one is in 6.5 Grendel mostly for shizzles and giggles but its ballistics are way superior to the 7.62x39 at mid to "long" range even with the shorter barrels. Although one could in theory neck down a 7.62x39 case down to 6.5 Grendel... I don't know of any steel case resizers. Maybe they do exist. Brass certainly, after all, the .220 Russian was based on a brass X39 case I believe?


Anyways. 5.56 parts everywhere. Ammo everywhere. AR parts everywhere. Magazines everywhere. 6.5 Grendel ammo currently is not as commonplace as .30 Carbine or 5.56 ammo... but it might be easier to find.

 

[po18guy]

I have a couple of the ghetto Universal Firearms Corp. M1 carbines - that now go for $850 or so!?!?! Unbelievable. Anyway, also inherited a Mini-14GB (Ghetto Blaster) w/flash hider and bayonet lug. So, either caliber is fine.