scenario: starving friend is at your door

[The Quiet Man]

QM....I don't understand your statement..I lived for decades without either locks or firearms...In a different social setting I am sure that I would again...How does that prevent me from helping others in times of need? When I have had my own personal emergencies others extended their helping hands to me...How could I do less?

Please explain.

W44

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying. I interpreted your post to mean that you would find it impossible to reconcile your faith with the act of turning anyone away, even under the most dire and dangerous of circumstances. If that is correct, you are saying that even those who refused/failed to prepare are entitled to what you have set aside for the survival of your family. You would risk your own safety and "survivability" if someone came to your door and needed help. While that may be a laudable moral attribute, I just wondered why you would find it desirable or necessary to lock your doors and protect yourself in the meantime. After all, you will open your doors and let anyone have your "stuff" anyway, so why take on the burden of prepping and protecting if you don't believe your first responsibility is protecting yourself and family. What am I missing?

 

[Father of four]

I would give them something to eat. I would not turn them away without giving them anything.

 

[Father of four]

I consider my skillset to be second only to my faith in a situation like the OP set....I consider my skillset to be a gift from my maker..

It would be unfaithful of me and therefore wrong for me to turn any away....Since the gifts are on loan to me who am I to not share them.

Since friends an family won't listen in these prosperous times (lol) I expect some very serious students in the coming times...Hopefully they will learn then...

W44

Very nice post!

 

[Father of four]

Gotta draw the line somewhere, but it may be hard once you are over it.

I Agree. It would be very tough.

 

[Redcap]

If I considered the person a friend, I wouldn't turn them away. There will be some way they can help to offset their food cost.

 

[Wheeler44]

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying. I interpreted your post to mean that you would find it impossible to reconcile your faith with the act of turning anyone away, even under the most dire and dangerous of circumstances.

So far, so good

If that is correct, you are saying that even those who refused/failed to prepare are entitled to what you have set aside for the survival of your family.

Entitled? no. Welcome to the fruits of my skillset ,yes..teach a man to fish as opposed to just givin' him one..

You would risk your own safety and "survivability" if someone came to your door and needed help.

I would share what I could, mostly skillset and knowledge..As I have mentioned before we are surrounded by food and fresh water, most folks cannot see that or are just unaware.

While that may be a laudable moral attribute, I just wondered why you would find it desirable or necessary to lock your doors and protect yourself in the meantime.

Thank you sir. However, I don't remember sayin' that I was anybodies doormat. The locks just keep out the honest thieves.

After all, you will open your doors and let anyone have your "stuff" anyway, so why take on the burden of prepping and protecting if you don't believe your first responsibility is protecting yourself and family.[Please see below

What am I missing?[/QUOTE]

What you are missing is the fact that I don't equate helping out my fellow humans with putting my families head on a chopping block. My guns are for those that would. We are surrounded by food and water. Take a thorough assessment of the resource around you. I grew up in rural Washington county until I was 13. There is plenty there if you know where to look. By sharing I mean helping people see what is there and how to access it. There is a reason why my Grandpa walked across the continent to get to the Willamette valley..and many reasons why he didn't stop and put down roots on the way. Geography and climate had much to do with it. We truly are blessed to live here...If there ever is a complete collapse of infrastructure "bunkering up" will be counter productive to long term survival goals..

Your mileage will vary..

W44

 

[treemanx]

scenario: every thing has gone to heck. you have bunkered down in you home with just enough supplies for you and your family.
your friends however did not listen and now are at your door starving and begging for help. some of them may have children with them.

you know helping even one could put you at risk.
helping one and not all may cause some to turn violent.

in a SHTF world this scenario is all to likely
how will you handle it?

are you mentally prepared to say no?

to kill even a friend to defend your families supplies?

every one seems to talk about looters and crazy people but they are the easy part.

Just enough supplies for what duration of time? In a SHTF scenario, it might be difficult to determine how long one might have to live off of stored resources. You might have enough supplies to carry your family for 3 months, but how do you know the SHTF scenario will have resolved itself by then? It may last another 3 months beyond your supplies, or another year, or more. In that case, it would benefit your family more in my opinion to have a group rather than just you and your wife and kids, to have more assistance in procuring food and water once the supplies run out.

My point is, if you turned starving friends away so as not to take food away from your family, how long will it be before you are at the end of those resources and are in need of hunting or scavenging for more? How more effective would hunting and scavenging be with a few more adults to cover more area?

This is a tough question though, because as other posters have mentioned you would not want to help someone who was not willing to help themselves. So they would have to understand that they would have to contribute to the group in some significant way to offset their resource consumption. But in the end, I believe that it would be more beneficial to accept a starving friend rather than turn them away.

The real question for me is: where does it stop? How many starving friends or kids or whoever would it take to say enough? At some point, taking on more mouths to feed would become detrimental. And when you reach your limit, how do you reconcile turning away, for instance, a hungry mother and child?

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

I know it's outside the scenario you give, but I have seen this train wreck coming for a long time - I blew past having just enough for my immediate family a long time ago. I have planned to take in a few refugees. One condition will be no free-loaders. You better bring something to the table in the way of skills or materials. I will also probably be slightly less sympathetic if you are one of the individuals I have been warning for years, and you did nothing to prepare.

 

[Wheeler44]

An afterthought; If you would turn away friends are you truly a friend? Or are you in the relationship for personal gain? ie. a parasite.

 

[The Quiet Man]

What you are missing is the fact that I don't equate helping out my fellow humans with putting my families head on a chopping block. My guns are for those that would.... W44

Good points, W44. I understand what you are saying, but drew the line in a little different place in assuming the help was in fact putting your family's head on the chopping block. With such open-ended possibilities, it is really difficult to address each with any intelligence. Your ideas are what I regularly hear in church... and struggle with as I listen and ponder. We all have to decide where that line is, and live with our decisions. I respect yours, as you obviously have some well considered, theologically/philosophically supported, heart-felt convictions. Conceptually, we are pretty much in agreement. In practice, my shell is likely still a little "harder" than yours... but I'm still thinking about it. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Wheeler44]

Thanks for the discussion.

You are welcome. Thank you for your thoughtful reply...

Back in '72 my folks thought the world was comin' to the end. They "bunkered up" in the most outta the way place they could find...And I do mean outta the way...

After a few years of continuous preparations they (we) were ready for whatever emergency you could imagine (short of ELEs (Extinction Level Events) such as massive meteors, etc. )..After a while of waiting for the collapse they (we) started to realize that they gave up much for their preparations. Does that ring a bell? there were plans made to close off any contact with the outside world, when the collapse came. Does that ring a bell? It wasn't much longer that some started hoping for the end of society.

My opinion is ; If you are hoping for society to collapse to justify your world view, you are a sick person. Change? Yes!! Collapse and leave many suffering? No!!!
I cannot control society and the changes it takes (well, very much at least, but I do try) but I can help folks if it happens. We are far removed from Mogadishu and Port au Prince. We have resource that folks in those places don't have. I for one am thankful. I for one will help those that I can.
It is as easy as "See this plant, take one with you. Fill this basket with plants like this and bring it back. Do not pick every one but leave some for others. I will give you a bowl of cattail soup when you return." If they don't return? Oh well, I tried and my conscience is clean.

W44

 

[Nwcid]

An afterthought; If you would turn away friends are you truly a friend? Or are you in the relationship for personal gain? ie. a parasite.

IMHO it is not about friends or not friends. It is about can you afford to. A person can only support a leach or a parasite for so long before it destroys the host. In the scenario you put forth the "friend" is the parasite if they bring nothing (does not mean material) and only take........

If they are willing to learn, to be taught, to do labor, to do anything I will help. If they plan on being a parasite they will have to fine another host.

 

[Wheeler44]

If they are willing to learn, to be taught, to do labor, to do anything I will help. If they plan on being a parasite they will have to fine another host.

Please see my post directly above yours.

W44

 

[Nwcid]

Please see my post directly above yours.

W44

I was typing while you posted

 

[Wheeler44]

I was typing while you posted

I know

W44

 

[goatguns]

as I read all of these post, I still struggle with what I would do. I have a lot of "friends" that I tell time and time again that they them selves need to have some kind of storage for thier family, But it seems to fall on deaf ears. All I ever here is "why would you need that?" Or "you are crazy". And the best is "ill just come over to your house if things ever get bad". These are the people that I would have a hard time helping out. But they are still my friends.So where does the "friends" stop? I have kids and a wife that depend on me to take care of them. Where does my role as a friend end and my role as a father begin? These are the questions that I have a problem with and I cant answer. I have a big heart and cant say no most of the time but I also have to make sure my family can eat. I have had to make due and do with out, to have the money to buy preparedness Items for the what if, while everyone else blows it on crap they dont need. This was just my 2 cents.
Take it for what it is worth. (nothing)

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

as I read all of these post, I still struggle with what I would do. I have a lot of "friends" that I tell time and time again that they them selves need to have some kind of storage for thier family, But it seems to fall on deaf ears. All I ever here is "why would you need that?" Or "you are crazy". And the best is "ill just come over to your house if things ever get bad". These are the people that I would have a hard time helping out. But they are still my friends.So where does the "friends" stop? I have kids and a wife that depend on me to take care of them. Where does my role as a friend end and my role as a father begin? These are the questions that I have a problem with and I cant answer. I have a big heart and cant say no most of the time but I also have to make sure my family can eat. I have had to make due and do with out, to have the money to buy preparedness Items for the what if, while everyone else blows it on crap they dont need. This was just my 2 cents.
Take it for what it is worth. (nothing)

I think you answer your own question right there. You went without today for a better tomorrow. You met your obligation to your friends by warning them about the possibilities of what may be coming. They made their own choices - they get to live (or die) with them. Friends do not use each other - they help each other so both benefit. Take care of your family, leave the parasites to their own devices.

 

[spider]

Rip the rear door off my accord and use it as shield

 

[isher]

Doesn't matter if you have food for four days or forty years.

Doesn't matter if you have a reinforced concrete bunker or just the pack on your back.

Choose your friends very, very carefully.

And expect the same from them.

This is the heart of the inquiry/argument to me...........

Isher

 

[gettersideways]

I really like W44's reponses along with others on the same page. But have you ever seen Defiance? Granted they are just on a big camp out trying to keep a low profile but they did come together (it was tough) and do great things.

I've asked myself is my overall shtf plan to barricade my family and self away from everyone else? Absolutely not, might work for a couple months but not long term. It takes a lot of people to build a suitable community for long term survival.

So my answer: I would help those who are willing to help themselves. That's what I would want if I were helpless in any situation in life. I would be selective about what I do and do not give or "hand" out. But if someone does try to screw me or my family over and take what rightfully isn't their's... I'll have a 6 foot hole dug in the backyard just for them.