Pistols En Masse for a Tribe?

[Ura-Ki]

I gotta agree with Medic! here, Carbines are a lot more effective and efficient in every role the "tribe" would have! Outside of that, I would also include a few larger rifles for more reach and accuracy and a few hand guns for those proficient enough to handle them!
What that looks like I cannot say, but in my world that would be; AR's across the board and M/P .40s for the few. long arms would be up to the individual with a preference to semi's up to .308 and bolties above that! For the younger ones, this a a great opportunity to bring the .22s to the party! A few kids with a 50 matchbox and a "Mission" to bring food helps earn their place in the tribe and builds them into very effective shooters later on!

 

[CountryGent]

Question:

Why handguns?

Short range defense. Not precluding long guns.

Are you arming children or adults?

Adults (21+).

Perhaps, (perhaps) arming up the extended family close friend "tribe" may be way down the list of importance ... or immediacy

It is indeed way down the list. Whilst working on a planning document last night, I got to thinking of what would be a quality, but economical option in this area. To my surprise, there actually are solid options that aren't too expensive.

But, still, this is neither pressing nor at the top of the list. For example, the well development and irrigation system I was penciling out will cost many times more in dollars and hours, and is a must.

There or perhaps The Arickaree fight of 1823 or as late as the Mexican American War , with a few pieces even to 25 June 1876...
Andy

One of the many thing I like about Andy is he's a fellow history nerd.

Smith SD9VE. They are decent, go bang every time and the trigger is heavy enough to discourage ND's. Probably around $200 or less at dealer cost.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Medic!]

I was somehow thinking younger unexperienced people here. Like Children?
Or those that hardly if ever shoot?


So the SHTF! And it's ''All hands on deck''. But your not sure of everyone's ability to handle a gun?
With a carbine/rifle. I can look somebody in the eye. And have a short serious one minute conversation[Do this! Don't do this!] before turning them loose to shoot.

I wont do that with a pistol.
Lets face it. It's just harder to shoot yourself in the face with a rifle.

And with a longer overall length? If I stay close. It may give me the time and ability to stop them before they shoot me in the Butt. Providing I pay attention.

Now if everybody in the group is trained up? That's different.

 

[JedB]

Based on the elements you've presented, probably the G17/19 combo.

My only hesitation in suggesting that is if the ergos don't really work for a specific person.
For whatever reason, the G22/17 ergos didn't work for me, and I've ended up with Sig229 and Sig320s across the respective slots. Some other people may have a similar challenge.

You may also want to consider getting a few extras of whatever you get so there can be either a mentality where 2 = 1, or a "I have extras for cannibalization for parts"

Personally, I have 2x and spare small parts & barrels for what I own in the handgun department.
Similar philosophy in the long gun department.

 

[MrRob96]

Glock makes me sad to say it.

But shtf, those mags and parts will be all over the place. And you don't need an armorer to repair them if you're smart enough to understand the words "legal entity."

 

[Dungannon]

If I had folks with me in a SHTF scenario, and they weren't already gun saavy, I'd show them how to load magazines and put them in a safer spot behind me.

 

[cigars]

Depending on how many in your group, I would buy 5 or 6 of the same main rifle and pistol. Make these the primary weapons that everyone knows how to pick up and shoot while blindfolded and in their sleep. Also good for parts cannibalizing if needed. Think of how an infantry (ahem...CAVALRY!) squad is outfitted. It's a matter of practicality and standard regimentation. A concentration of fire from multiples of the same weapon on one target can be overwhelming, even if the caliber is not. You will also have big guns if needed I'm sure. A rack of ten SKS's would fit the bill nicely. You don't want highly bankrolled safe queens for this.

 

[Camelfilter]

Depending on how many in your group, I would buy 5 or 6 of the same main rifle and pistol. Make these the primary weapons that everyone knows how to pick up and shoot while blindfolded and in their sleep. Also good for parts cannibalizing if needed. Think of how an infantry (ahem...CAVALRY!) squad is outfitted. It's a matter of practicality and standard regimentation. A concentration of fire from multiples of the same weapon on one target can be overwhelming, even if the caliber is not. You will also have big guns if needed I'm sure. A rack of ten SKS's would fit the bill nicely. You don't want highly bankrolled safe queens for this.

Like, but not for SKS's...ATM. Simply due to both current pricing and comparative ease of use vs the AR platform.

Decent AR's are inexpensive ATM.

Given as previously mentioned by other members as being a current dealer, @CountryGent could likely get good to go out of the box AR's at even better pricing.

If that's too high, "stocking up wise", then he could stock up on stripped lowers for his business, plus parts kits and complete uppers. Would likely save ?$100 over good to go out of the box...and still have a nice assortment of reliable carbines.

No idea on if turning those stripped lowers into functioning rifles has an affect on his licensing, or not, though. If it doesn't have an affect, then ad in the background check savings to each stripped lower (vs a "regular guy"). Even more savings-until transferred.

 

[mkwerx]

PDW always on you gun? Glock 19. If we are talking a gun to repel hordes of zombies / city folk moving out preying on country folk post-ROL - an AR15. Ideally? One of each, because you are likely spending more time working on other things than guard duty. The rifle 20 feet away is useless in a surprise violent encounter, but a Glock in a belt holster is immediately deployable. Used Glock 9mms, an Uncle Mikes injection molded holster, or Fobus holster for every gun plus at least one spare mag in a cheap nylon flap style pouch. Rifles must have slings, military two point slings are OK, I like the bungee slings myself. But every rifle must have a sling.

If long ranges are in the plan and you have some decent shooters in the group, I might add a few Savage or Ruger American bolt guns in .308 or .30-06. Savage has a rifle package out now that includes a Nikon 3-9x40 scope with decent lense clarity for $400 - its a good bargain. Gather food and pick off zombies at a distance.

 

[The Heretic]

I would go with SIG P226s in 9mm for handguns - yes, I am totally a SIG DA/SA fanboi now. I would get Hogue grips and fiber optic/tritium night sights for each.

If I had a lot of people to provide for and a limited budget, then I would probably go for police trade ins.

I would then get some ball ammo that would have the same ballistics as the self defense ammo, for testing of the guns and for practice, then the rest of the budget would be for good effective JHP self-defense ammo.

 

[CamoDeafie]

All good points here.
Logistics dictate needs.

How big a group?
How competent the people in the group?

What are the logistics like in your AO? Would you have easy access to parts, magazines and ammo?

How big a budget?

What are likely legal/ law enforcement issues? (Looking at States/nations like California, New York, and Australia for examples)

Here is how I am looking at it.

Common firearms, and affordability.
Ar 15s for semiauto rifles.
.30-30 levers, for not semi.
10/22s for rimfire small game hunting and attack dog neutralizing.
Handguns? Probably glocks, and smith wessons (sigma, m&p, revolvers), Ruger series, possibly Sigs. 1911s if budgets not problem, can find mags and parts easily.

Mossberg, Maverick, Remington shotguns for general hunting and close range needs

I am a pistol caliber carbine owner, and even I would not recommend them for SHTF platoons mainly due to parts and magazine availability and relative uncommonality compared to ar15s and lever actions, with the exception of PCCs that share magazines with pistols.

Depending on a squad/team size, this is how I may outfit...

Everyone has handguns, and 3-4 mags of pistol ammo
8 have ar15 or lever actions
2 have shotguns
2 or 3 carry rimfire rifles in addition to ar15s.
2 or 3 carry extra ar15 or lever actions taken down in rucks
Everyone carry minimum 6 ar15 mags, and shotgunners carry 25 shells each
Or ~200 rounds of .30-30 in "cards" (see shotgun card concept for examples)

Base camp/HQ/armory have tools, ammo, spare parts, etc cached away securely. Could be as simple as a Conex/shipping container, or large garage shop, or as complicated as a fort/OP.

 

[P7M13]

1. Become a prolific source for unregulated "parts".
2. Tribe members are all employees
   
3. Pay ITAR
4. Go SOT3
5. MP5 / AK / M16 & 14
6. Increase land holdings to > 4K acres
7. Start training programs

That is, only if you don't want "that guy" above the radar.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

A guy on you tube bought two cases of Nagants, one for each neighbor.
only give bullets to the ones you like, the rest have clubs

 

[PaulB47]

.22LR pistols and rifles (e.g. Marlin 795).

If you are arming people who already aren't armed, give them something they can hit with and practice with. Rimfire all the way.