Washington oregon resident shooting in washington with high cap. mag

[Catfishmoon]

I do not understand how you construed what I said to be any sort of a suggestion to anyone.
I stated facts regarding what some outfits have said they will do, and I stated my position on that matter.
All facts. No suggestions.

My comment was inappropriate.
My apologies.

 

[User 1234]

The Federal FOPA was supposed to protect travelers who did not stop in a state from being prosecuted for their items carried through that state, but that protection has not been applied uniformly by the courts.

 

[gunsmithkinks]

Importing" any mag would have to be considered for any magazine to be permanently kept in WA as a resident of WA, to be considered imported in such a way.

If you are from out of state as a resident in another state, you are only using a mag you owned in your own state to shoot with while here, but you are not a resident of WA. So, it's my understanding you'd not be affected or breaking any law. You would be taking your prior owned mags of another state of residency back home with you to that state in which you reside, where as you would not be leaving any mag here as an act or importing with that intent to do so. A lot of wording in law is about a person's "intent " under the law. Any lawyer eill tell you this.

You should be ok to bring a mag with you that You OWN from another state into WA to shoot or hunt with, because you will be leaving to go back to your own state with your own mag. No different than WA state resident owning a magazine prior to July 1st, 2022, taking such mag out if state, then just simply traveling back with it to come back home to WA. That is legal. I've had 2 lawyers and local FFL Dealers say that's how it works.

Also if you can Show the purchase date of mags being bought before July 1st on ordered mags, then you should be good to go too. As a rule if thumb inwill say I do NOT order anything like the mags unless I talk to a company on the phone to maje 100% sure their inventory list is up to date. Then if ut us I place my order with them over the phone. And I make sure they send me tracking info, and an invoice hard copy alwayssss.

 

[JohnnyMac]

You can always just store your mags at my house so they will have "lived" in WA.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

You can always just store your mags at my house so they will have "lived" in WA.

Brilliant!

 

[Yarome]

What if you're just passin' through, say traveling from Post falls, ID to Umatilla, OR? Would one still be guilty of importation if the gun is unloaded, cased, and not readily accessible?

That's fine. Federal law allows transport of firearms while travelling over state lines as long as you are in compliance with your departure and destination state laws. Firearms should be unloaded and secured while traversing a state where your firearm (or mags) may not be in compliance with local laws.. or... your CCW does not allow any other type carry within the state you are traversing... even though it may in your depature and destination states.

So... "through" a state is just fine, just not "to".

 

[Yarome]

Interstate travel... here ya go:

"
Under FOPA's specific provisions, a person can legally transport a firearm to and from any place, as long the firearm is unloaded, and inaccessible to the driver or any passenger. Here is the exact language of Subsection A:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

FOPA was meant to protect travelers who may end up in a state who has stricter laws on firearms transportation than under federal law. FOPA would essentially override those state laws or local rules, and allow the traveler to cross state lines with his or her firearm."

 

[shoengine]

I'm going to tack a pragmatic approach here. IANAL, whatever.

This law does not outlaw existing 11+ round mags, just the sale, transfer and importation of magazines. Other than committing a crime, the only possible way I can think of an out of state individual being "caught" importing a mag is during a traffic stop if the weapon loaded with a "high capacity magazine" is declared and then temporarily detained by the officer. Then they would have to specifically arrest you for suspicion of committing a crime (assuming that RCW specifies if it is a misdemeanor or a felony, I can't recall) and then the normal litigation process would begin.

Do you even have a concealed carry permit for WA? If not, then even having a loaded weapon in your car is illegal. It should be in some sort of case unloaded anyway. If the cops start showing up to events or ranges and start arresting people and asking for their papers I'll move.

 

[sobo]

Importing" any mag would have to be considered for any magazine to be permanently kept in WA as a resident of WA, to be considered imported in such a way.

According to ESSB 5078, no it does not.

If you are from out of state as a resident in another state, you are only using a mag you owned in your own state to shoot with while here, but you are not a resident of WA. So, it's my understanding you'd not be affected or breaking any law.

Your understanding would be incorrect. Please read the definition of "Import" in Section 2, Paragraph 38, of ESSB 5078 as passed and signed into law. It specifically states that " 'Import' means to move, transport, or receive an item from a place outside the territorial limits of the state of Washington to a place inside the territorial limits of the state of Washington..." That very clearly applies to anyone and everyone who might wish to bring "high-capacity" mags into WA state, regardless if passing through the state or if their trip terminates in WA. The law makes no reference to, nor provides any relief for, out-of-state (OOS) residents passing through or terminating their trip inside WA state. Since the law does not specifically relieve OOS residents of compliance with the law, then it applies to everyone. Nothing is left to the imagination here - OOS residents cannot bring "high-capacity" magazines into WA state after July 1, 2022 that were not previously possessed in WA state prior to July 1, 2022. Doing so would be importation, and illegal after the specified date.

You would be taking your prior owned mags of another state of residency back home with you to that state in which you reside, where as you would not be leaving any mag here as an act or importing with that intent to do so. A lot of wording in law is about a person's "intent " under the law. Any lawyer eill tell you this.

Doesn't matter if your mags are owned out of state under this BS law. See the discussion immediately above. If you did not have them within the territorial boundaries of WA state prior to the effective date of the ban, then any "high-capacity" magazines entering the state by any means after July 1, 2022 constitutes importation under this BS law, which is specifically called out as illegal under the legislation.

You should be ok to bring a mag with you that You OWN from another state into WA to shoot or hunt with, because you will be leaving to go back to your own state with your own mag.

And you will be violating this law if you do. Again, please read the definition of "Importation" in ESSB 5078 and cease providing incorrect information.

No different than WA state resident owning a magazine prior to July 1st, 2022, taking such mag out if state, then just simply traveling back with it to come back home to WA. That is legal. I've had 2 lawyers and local FFL Dealers say that's how it works.

Only WA state residents can travel back and forth across state lines with "high-capacity" mags provided the mags were owned in WA state prior to the effective date of the ban.

Also if you can Show the purchase date of mags being bought before July 1st on ordered mags, then you should be good to go too. As a rule if thumb inwill say I do NOT order anything like the mags unless I talk to a company on the phone to maje 100% sure their inventory list is up to date. Then if ut us I place my order with them over the phone. And I make sure they send me tracking info, and an invoice hard copy alwayssss.

No comment, since I bought several hundred mags a couple months ago and didn't wait until the last minute to stock up.

 

[sobo]

That's fine. Federal law allows transport of firearms while travelling over state lines as long as you are in compliance with your departure and destination state laws. Firearms should be unloaded and secured while traversing a state where your firearm (or mags) may not be in compliance with local laws.. or... your CCW does not allow any other type carry within the state you are traversing... even though it may in your depature and destination states.

So... "through" a state is just fine, just not "to".

Again, not entirely correct and not enough context. You are referring to firearms, and in that context what you say above is correct.

However, this law specifically refers to magazines. Under this BS law, no one, including WA state residents, can import "high-capacity" magazines into the state after July 1, 2022. It does not matter if one is ending one's trip from out-of-state within WA, or if one is passing through WA state. The fact that one has brought "high-capacity" magazines across the territorial border of WA state after July 1, 2022, with said magazines not having been possessed in WA state prior to that same date, is illegal after July 1, 2022. Again, people need to read the definition of "import" in ESSB 5078 as signed and passed into law.

EDIT:
I stand corrected.

After reading more of @Yarome's comments and rereading the "Safe Passage" provision of FOPA, I agree with Yarome and his interpretation of the "passing through" provision of FOPA.

However, I am still of the opinion that if the trip ends in WA state, then the person is no longer "passing through" and the provisions of ESSB 5078 would apply, and one must conclude that "high-capacity" magazines had been imported in that instance.

 

[sobo]

Interstate travel... here ya go:

"
Under FOPA's specific provisions, a person can legally transport a firearm to and from any place, as long the firearm is unloaded, and inaccessible to the driver or any passenger. Here is the exact language of Subsection A:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

FOPA was meant to protect travelers who may end up in a state who has stricter laws on firearms transportation than under federal law. FOPA would essentially override those state laws or local rules, and allow the traveler to cross state lines with his or her firearm."

Again, FOPA is national/federal and applies to firearms. ESSB 5078 is specific to WA state and applies to magazines. That's likely how these assclowns in Olympia got around FOPA (although I wouldn't give them that much credit for being that smart).

EDIT:
See post immediately above.

 

[Knebel]

Rent a very cheap small storage in WA and 'leave some standart cap mags in there'. If you frequent matches or something.

 

[sobo]

I'm going to tack a pragmatic approach here. IANAL, whatever.

This law does not outlaw existing 11+ round mags, just the sale, transfer and importation of magazines.

And to be entirely correct, distribution.

Other than committing a crime, the only possible way I can think of an out of state individual being "caught" importing a mag is during a traffic stop if the weapon loaded with a "high capacity magazine" is declared and then temporarily detained by the officer.

Or if the "high-capacity" mags are in plain view (whereas the officer would not need any probable cause to search the vehicle in the course of a normal traffic stop). Of course, anyone traveling with "high-capacity" magazines in plain view in their vehicle, knowing that they are importing same into WA state, would be an idiot.

Then they would have to specifically arrest you for suspicion of committing a crime (assuming that RCW specifies if it is a misdemeanor or a felony, I can't recall) and then the normal litigation process would begin.

Do you even have a concealed carry permit for WA? If not, then even having a loaded weapon in your car is illegal. It should be in some sort of case unloaded anyway.

True.

If the cops start showing up to events or ranges and start arresting people and asking for their papers I'll move.

Same.

 

[sobo]

Rent a very cheap small storage in WA and 'leave some standart cap mags in there'. If you frequent matches or something.

Excellent idea. Just make sure the mags are stored in the storage unit prior to July 1, 2022.

 

[Knebel]

Excellent idea. Just make sure the mags are stored in the storage unit prior to July 1, 2022.

Yeah...right. and how would anyone know they were really stored there?

You just need some sort of 'residence' or rental agreement. The burden of proof if you are accused is always on the accuser.

 

[sobo]

Yeah...right. and how would anyone know they were really stored there?

Again, no one would know except you. The lunacy/stupidity of this law is that WA State can't prove when you bought the magazines you have, unless you tell them or your mags have a date-stamp on them. One can go across state lines, buy a shiit-ton of them, and drive back home to WA and as long as one doesn't get stopped by LEO along the way, one is golden. If one chooses to do this, one might want to make sure that any mags one imports into WA in this manner have date-stamps prior to July of 2022. Just in case something might happen further down the road that would lead LE to start looking at those date-stamps, yunno...

You just need some sort of 'residence' or rental agreement. The burden of proof if you are accused is always on the accuser.

As I have said in several previous threads on this topic, the State would be in the unenviable position of trying to prove a negative.
The State would have to prove that you did not buy the magazines before July 1, 2022. You, as the accused, don't have to prove anything.

Note, I am not encouraging any sort of illegal behavior, just pointing out the stupidity and unenforceability of this BS law.

 

[Yarome]

Again, FOPA applies to firearms. ESSB 5078 applies to magazines. Not the same.

FOPA has been upheld in multiple jurisditions to include magazines and accessory attachments of the accompanying firearm under the FOPA "firearm" terminology.

Again, If it's legal in your departure and destination state, FOPA superceeds any state law when traversing "through" a state. Including ESSB 5078.

 

[Knebel]

Exactly. What you said! I was saying to rent a storage before the deadline, thats it. And then it would be wise to store the magazines there. However, its not enforcable so... who knows if they were rewally stored there! Let the accuser prove that!

 

[sobo]

FOPA has been upheld in multiple jurisditions to include magazines and accessory attachments of the accompanying firearm under the FOPA "firearm" terminology.

Again, If it's legal in your departure and destination state, FOPA superceeds any state law when traversing "through" a state. Including ESSB 5078.

I agree with you. It has never been my intention to suggest that I support ESSB 5078, and I apologize to any and all who might have thought that I did. This BS law should be contested shortly after implementation on FOPA grounds. Federal law sets the bar for the level of strictness. State laws can be less strict than federal laws, but they can't be more strict than federal laws. That's why SCOTUS should rule in favor of NYSRPA v NYC and any law coming out of CA.

 

[gunsmithkinks]

I'm not worried about it. I also got mags long ago. They're gonna have a helluva time enforcing this crap I can tell ya that
My sis is a good lawyer and along with other lawyers including 2n ammendment lawyers I know say the same. But this importing thing they say has to do with intent on bringing mags into WA State to keep here. NOT just to use while hete from out if state then taking thier mags back home with them. And I don't think that will be hard to show in court. It also has to do with residency in this state. Laws passed on WA state residents. It's not a law passed to police other states on WA state bs policies like I've had lawyers tell me about this. Way too many people get way too worked uo over this chit living in fear.
I don't , and I never will. Ive been at this stuff wayyyy too many years not to know how to deal with situations that come up.

I think it's all going to get overturned anyway the way things are going. In the meantime buy what mags you can and put 'em away.

The main thing is guys we all have to stick together or get hung one at a time in the dark. Strength in numbers is where it's at. The government can't control its people without first disarming them, and that's nit gonna happen in God's country period. Wait and watch God deal with these politicians because its coming.