Maybe we deserve what we might end up with

[Longwalkhome]

Hence the reason I don't have instagram, facebook, twitter, etc. I let my own eyes, ears, and personal experience dictate what I believe. Facts over feelings.

I don't have sympathy for the sheep that are lead to the slaughter. I hate the media. I hate politicians (red and blue). And I shake my head at the Americans who stand for a "policy," "idea," or "a right" and are unable to articulate their point without screaming and point fingers (again both left and right).

The right follows their "leaders" without question. Just like the left follows theirs.

Stupid sheep.

I am encouraged that people are pushing the politicians rather than following them, I see it a lot in some places.

 

[dancinghippos]

The news showed a clip of some backwards hillbilly gun owner?

Shocking.

It isn't just news clips that portray gun owners poorly. It is fictional TV dramas too.

The thing about fiction as a propaganda tool is that the sympathetic characters supporting the author's "truth" can be delightful people you love, and the climax at the end always works out to support the author's "moral of the story". It's all bullspin to support the author's narrative.

TV and movie dramas are better propaganda, because people willingly pay big money to see and soak up good entertainment. They only watch the news when there is nothing else available.

 

[Aero Denezol]

We are attempting to defend ourselves with facts and logic when most people communicate with pictures and emotions, like little babies do.

We are living in Nero's Rome. Just mooching off the fat of the land and enjoying the hard work of previous generations. POS questioning the American way of life while their bellies are full and their homes are warm. All these POS never give a second thought to the tremendous comforts they enjoy and hard it was to win them and how quickly it can all go away.

 

[Member 53328]

We are attempting to defend ourselves with facts and logic when most people communicate with pictures and emotions.

We are living in Nero's Rome. Just mooching off the fat of the land and enjoying the hard work of previous generations. POS questioning the American way of life while their bellies are full and their homes are warm. All these POS never give a second thought to the tremendous comforts they enjoy and hard it was to win them and how quickly it can all go away.

The empire will fall. Possibly soon.

 

[dancinghippos]

We are attempting to defend ourselves with facts and logic when most people communicate with pictures and emotions.

We are living in Nero's Rome. Just mooching off the fat of the land and enjoying the hard work of previous generations. POS questioning the American way of life while their bellies are full and their homes are warm. All these POS never give a second thought to the tremendous comforts they enjoy and hard it was to win them and how quickly it can all go away.

Our society became so rich that we could afford to insulate idiots from the outcomes of their bad decisions. Even to the point of punishing innocents for successfully defending themselves from violent attackers. Subsidizing bad decisions bring only more bad decisions.

 

[Longwalkhome]

After two years of covid tyranny I can't believe folks still watch the tv news, unless they just love to be lied to.

 

[Longwalkhome]

The empire will fall. Possibly soon.

You will know for sure this election.

 

[Nosferatu]

Speak for yourself. It's easy to lecture people anonymously online. Where's your merry band of revolutionists?

 

[bradsteen]

2A supporters have been playing a defensive game against the anti-gun folks for decades. The anti-gunners don't wait for election cycles to push their agenda - they do it all day, every day, 24 hours a day, appealing to a demographic whose exposure to firearms is often limited to the news, movies, and social media.

This election is just one battle in a very long war, a war that can only be won through education. We have to teach the everyday person about why guns are valuable and important elements of a free society. That isn't going to happen overnight.

We will never turn the tide back against a decades-long indoctrination campaign by waiting till the ballots come out to pound the pro 2A drum. It takes continuous engagement and reinforcement of consistent and appealing messaging over extended periods of time to affect a widespread cultural change.

If you want to solve the problem, don't just donate cash to pro-2A causes. Donate your time and energy to spread the word within your community about why firearms are so important. However, if you choose to invest your time and energy engaging people and helping spread the word, you will be undercutting your own efforts if you include partisan politics into your messaging. The majority of the population will shut down and stop listening the second you throw out negative statements about the party they identify with. The 2A is an issue that should transcend party lines, because everyone has a right to defend themselves and their loved ones. Take politics out of the discussion entirely and focus on the issue at hand.

 

[Mikej]

The 2A is an issue that should transcend party lines, because everyone has a right to defend themselves and their loved ones. Take politics out of the discussion entirely and focus on the issue at hand.

Well, WE know that! The masses are being brain washed with the thought the government is here to protect them, supply their safety, food and shelter. How does a person combat that? For one example..... People walk out in front of moving cars, and die, for Christ's sake! Because the message from our keepers is that the law says that cars have to stop for pedestrians!

 

[Caveman Jim]

2A supporters have been playing a defensive game against the anti-gun folks for decades. The anti-gunners don't wait for election cycles to push their agenda - they do it all day, every day, 24 hours a day, appealing to a demographic whose exposure to firearms is often limited to the news, movies, and social media.

This election is just one battle in a very long war, a war that can only be won through education. We have to teach the everyday person about why guns are valuable and important elements of a free society. That isn't going to happen overnight.

We will never turn the tide back against a decades-long indoctrination campaign by waiting till the ballots come out to pound the pro 2A drum. It takes continuous engagement and reinforcement of consistent and appealing messaging over extended periods of time to affect a widespread cultural change.

If you want to solve the problem, don't just donate cash to pro-2A causes. Donate your time and energy to spread the word within your community about why firearms are so important. However, if you choose to invest your time and energy engaging people and helping spread the word, you will be undercutting your own efforts if you include partisan politics into your messaging. The majority of the population will shut down and stop listening the second you throw out negative statements about the party they identify with. The 2A is an issue that should transcend party lines, because everyone has a right to defend themselves and their loved ones. Take politics out of the discussion entirely and focus on the issue at hand.

I have been preaching this same mindset for 10+ years on this and other forums. There are many members here who vote in favor for anti-gun legislation!

 

[Longwalkhome]

Tommorrow is the big day, we may put out the 114 fire but only voting out the Democrat arsonist will protect our constitution. Good luck gents.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Look, I'm not trying to start an argument. What I am trying
to do is to get people to stop and THINK about this.

It is frustrating to me to see so many posts by owners of firearms
ARGUING about the how 114 is unconstitutional and how it won't
stand and other such mundane/off tract points and arguments.

IF ever there was a time to stand together and defeat this bill,
now is the time and last chance. Please, stop the arguments
and concentrate on defeating 114.

On channel 6 new last night they showed the YES on 114 committee
running a telephone call group of 10 to 20 callers who urge people
to go vote YES on 114. Channel 6 gave them good coverage without
actually recommending a vote either way. Then 6 contacted one
of the NO on 114 groups and asked to interview or comment.
The response was (excuse the express) short and stupid, and would
convenience no one to vote NO.

Why have we as firearm owners been so STUPID in our response to
114? Why do we argue among ourselves instead of working to
defeat this bill?

There has been little meaningful organized NO resistance to this
bill. I attended a gun show where there was a "booth" of NO on 114
people sitting on their asses. I watched for 15 minutes and they
never had meaningful contact with the people working by. They
should have been standing in the isles, shaking hands, making
contact to be sure people would vote NO and asking people to
vote NO. Stupid.

The few times a NO on 114 person has appear on television news
they have come off as uninformed, poorly prepared to discuss
the problems with bill and unimpressive. Stupid.

How many of you have actively contacted friends, relatives,
acquaintances and other people to ask them to vote no?
My count is over 140.

How many of you can intelligently discuss the inherent problens
with this bill (instead of simply saying "it's bad, it's really bad)?
Sportsmans Warehouse has done a better job of this than 75
per cent of the firearm owners who I have asked to tell me
in what was the bill is unworkable and will not solve the problem.

Why do so many of you want to argue the 2A rather than
work to defeat 114?

Here is the truth. If 114 passes, then in 180 days firearm
sales in Oregon will go to near zero. This forum will soon
disappear. The courts will allow the bill to go into affect
as it is challenged it court. The challenges will most fail
and will take 4 to 8 years to work their way through the system.
The 2A isn't going to protect you since the courts have
already ruled that gun regulations are allowable under 2A.

There, that is the bottom-line. Now tell me that it cannot
happen and I will tell you that it can and probably will
unless you spend the next two days getting people who
have not vote to vote. (Just like the YES people are call
like mad today).

And, if 114 does pass, I will make the last post to appear
on this website as it shuts down and in my post I will say "I told you so."

Now prove me wrong by NOT arguing, but by going out and getting
NO votes!

TJ

Thanks for the DOOM and GLOOM, we really needed THAT right Now!

I know your passionate about this, just as many here are, BUT, your preaching to the wrong folks.
WE do not have a voice in this fight, no matter how loudly we yell, the Media here absolutely OWNS the airwaves, so we might get a odd hour spot on one of the alt' news sights, or radio play, but that's it!
The media ONLY ever interviews Keven Sterrett, who, while he is passionate about thing's he is long winded, talks around the issues, and misses too many key points to be helpful, ( Outside of my feelings toward the man, He is the ONLY one the Media talks to ) so we takes what we can get!
There are MILLIONS being spent from Anti gun Orgs, outside this state to make this a reality, WE have NO financial support other then what each of us can afford to put in, which ain't much, and it wouldn't matter anyway as Bloomberg OWNS the Media and denies it's use to us!
Many of us here have taken to the streets in protest to this, BUT we were blocked from holding ANY type of gathering By Empress K8 the Great who declared the Capital grounds OFF limits to us, PERIOD!
You say were all arguing amongst ourselves here, Thats Flat out False, we are as organized as ever! You forget that "WE" come from ALL over this state, and several other states as well, so combining our efforts is a serious challenge! You cannot expect @GOG to haul arse 5 hours north to meet up and hold a rally, same as You cannot expect @Caveman Jim to drive 4 hours south for the same ( Though He has before, Thanks Brudda), you cannot ask @bbbass to drive 5 hours west ether! My point being, while we are a large group, and could be effective if we had access to the media, we are NOT and we DO NOT, so, the best we can do is the grass roots efforts we are doing, still!

You want us to stand and fight all of Potland, and the tri counties area WOKES, That aint gonna happen, even if we had access to the media, the lefties would STILL have their cash flow from Bloomberg, Giffords, et all, and you cannot Fight Bought off Woke!

I'm not bashin on you, but you need to shake out your head gear here and NOT blame this on us, focus your anger where it belongs, and if you have any ideas how to deal with that, then take what ever steps you can toward that, BUT, don't lay it at our feet and say "Yous Guy's Ain't Dooin Nuffin" When many of us ARE!

 

[Unicykle]

I have noticed that there aren't very many people that know about guns that are anti-gun. Almost all the anti 2A knowledge comes from propaganda, taglines or Hollywood films. Even politicians that have spent decades working against the gun industry haven't taken a couple of hours to inform themselves of some simple basic knowledge of what they're trying to ban. Joe Biden likes to take credit for the assault weapons ban. what do you want to bet he thinks that you actually couldn't buy AR during that time? Do you think he could tell you the difference between single action, double action, bolt action, pump action, lever action, semi automatic, fully automatic? The real problem is so simple if you just lock the people up that are doing the shooting and put actual penalties in place there would be virtually no problem.

 

[Aero Denezol]

The majority of the population will shut down and stop listening the second you throw out negative statements about the party they identify with.

That's one side of the equation. More often than not I find the listener cannot divorce their anti-gun bias from their politics. Progressive politics are powerfully intertwined since about 20 years ago. Going against any one policy position leads to censure from the rest.

I stay away from partisan politics when I talk to anti-gun people. I try to focus on the facts, and separate facts from emotions. If I'm articulate and make a good case then I find people look at me sideways, like I'm Kanye West. If I don't make a good case, it confirms their prejudice that we "gun nuts" are all a bunch of dummies. The point is by certain age people are nearly impossible to convince of anything they don't want to believe.

I agree with you that early education is the key. There was a guy here a few years ago who wanted to introduce gun safety as part of the public school curriculum but he was stonewalled. He was coming at it from a health standpoint, i.e., what if your child found a loaded gun, etc. The school district(s) wanted no part of this and he was force to give up.

 

[PiratePast40]

I have noticed that there aren't very many people that know about guns that are anti-gun. Almost all the anti 2A knowledge comes from propaganda, taglines or Hollywood films. Even politicians that have spent decades working against the gun industry haven't taken a couple of hours to inform themselves of some simple basic knowledge of what they're trying to ban. Joe Biden likes to take credit for the assault weapons ban. what do you want to bet he thinks that you actually couldn't buy AR during that time? Do you think he could tell you the difference between single action, double action, bolt action, pump action, lever action, semi automatic, fully automatic? The real problem is so simple if you just lock the people up that are doing the shooting and put actual penalties in place there would be virtually no problem.

You're talking about locking up criminals. That's mean, and no matter what skin color, probably racist.

 

[Member 53328]

I have been preaching this same mindset for 10+ years on this and other forums. There are many members here who vote in favor for anti-gun legislation!

Yup. I can guarantee you there are members of this forum/site that won't vote or will vote yes on 114. Then when it effects them they will come on here and b!tch/complain due to their ignorance. Just wait. If it passes you will see this unfold.

Just like the individuals who bragged about voting for Biden cause Trump was "mean." How's that working out?

 

[arakboss]

Judgement day is upon us. We'll see if the rampant overt particpation by a vast majority of members here, to campaign against Measure 114, has paid off.
I was likely traveling around with blinders on, as I did not notice much in the way of opposition but I am sure it was out there in plain sight.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Why is it we always self blame in these situations? Every single time stuff like 114 rolls around, the forum erupts with accusations of us not doing enough and not voting.. that simply is not the case.. as for arguing and articulating our side? We have.. almost all of us often do.. the main factor that is never addressed is: the opposite party listening to our logic and reason has to actually comprehend that daddy government is NOT the solution and that these proposed bills/laws/policies accomplish nothing.

The failure is on indoctrinated trash humans voting for trash policies and trash politicians that would rather pander to emotions than solve issues. We can have the most artuculate opinion in the galaxy and it will not make a bit of difference to the indoctrinated party listening. Sadly those anti gun people only learn "after the fact" or when it is too late.
(Often a home invasion, attack..etc)

Even if I handle anti gun snowflakes with good nature, well spoken, uber soft nerf mittens.. at the end of the day they will march to the beat of their anti gun overlords. The failure is on culture, society and on the education system. We need to win that battle over trying to placate to the antigun ear and gently rubbing the bellies of those that despise us and our hobby/lifestyle.

Very well said!

The blame does not lie at the door of this forum's members, period! This forum (including all inactive & active members) by my calcs is less than 2.5% of the gun owners in Oregon.

The people on this forum are a tiny fraction of the gun community in OR. Even if they convinced every single person they know it would not be nearly enough. There is a large, organized, and extremely well funded effort to remove all guns in the USA from private owners hands and it is extremely active in OR (and the whole west coast).

I said earlier when this was on its way to the ballot that the only way to defeat it is either through lots of $ going to effective and wide scale ads, and/or a massive scale social media effort. We would have had to reach every gun owner as well as a chunk of people who don't own guns. We would have had to have a simple and very convincing message that ideally would have 8-9 out of 10 people who hear it would say, "that is wrong". And that would have to be disseminated on a massive scale.

I said earlier I thought it would pass with 73-74% of the vote but that's just a guess. I really hope I'm wrong but I see a massive effort on one side and a huge liberal voting block. And on the other side I don't see massive $ spent on ads or a campaign (such as social media that can be done on almost a shoestring budget) that would reach a massive audience.

 

[arakboss]

Very well said!

The blame does not lie at the door of this forum's members, period! This forum (including all inactive & active members) by my calcs is less than 2.5% of the gun owners in Oregon.

The people on this forum are a tiny fraction of the gun community in OR. Even if they convinced every single person they know it would not be nearly enough. There is a large, organized, and extremely well funded effort to remove all guns in the USA from private owners hands and it is extremely active in OR (and the whole west coast).

I said earlier when this was on its way to the ballot that the only way to defeat it is either through lots of $ going to effective and wide scale ads, and/or a massive scale social media effort. We would have had to reach every gun owner as well as a chunk of people who don't own guns. We would have had to have a simple and very convincing message that ideally would have 8-9 out of 10 people who hear it would say, "that is wrong". And that would have to be disseminated on a massive scale.

I said earlier I thought it would pass with 73-74% of the vote but that's just a guess. I really hope I'm wrong but I see a massive effort on one side and a huge liberal voting block. And on the other side I don't see massive $ spent on ads or a campaign (such as social media that can be done on almost a shoestring budget) that would reach a massive audience.

I would imagine we (NWFA members) are the most ardent supporters of firearm freedoms out of all the gun owners in this State. If the most ardent supporters don't step up who will?