Literally The Stupidest Gun Safe Design I've Ever Seen

[sobo]

I try not to do the wall-o-text thing, but it always starts that way. I have to proofread and put in paragraph breaks where appropriate, and even then I do not catch everything. Then there is my tendency to ramble on and expound on every minor point and try to cover every angle. What started as a quick aside winds up being a mini-novella that did not just go down a single rabbit hole, but every damn rabbit hole in the field. Typing fast simply became a necessity if I was ever going to get anything else done with my life.

Now my handwriting on the other hand. . . .

We sound to be much alike...

 

[lucusloc]

We sound to be much alike...

A giant Jack@ss who likes to push buttons when they see them? I agree!

 

[sobo]

A giant Jack@ss who likes to push buttons when they see them? I agree!

Have you seen my autosig...???

 

[Flopsweat]

A giant Jack@ss who likes to push buttons when they see them? I agree!

Have you seen my autosig...???

I was gonna say "pendantic" but Ok....

 

[lucusloc]

Have you seen my autosig...???

lol, honestly I just figured that is like 90% of this forum's user base. Independent minded people have an earned reputation. Gundependent people have a tendency to crank that reputation to 11. I bet it would be hard to fin a guy on here who wouldn't make a great man-crush and cuddle bunny.

But don't be jealous, just because I cannot promise to be faithful does not mean we cannot have something special together ;-)

 

[sobo]

I was gonna say "pendantic" but Ok....

I am at once sarcastic and pedantic. These are not mutually exclusive propositions...

 

[lucusloc]

I am at once sarcastic and pedantic. These are not mutually exclusive propositions...

Indeed, the finer points of sarcasm rely on pedantry.

 

[sobo]

lol, honestly I just figured that is like 90% of this forum's user base. Independent minded people have an earned reputation. Gundependent people have a tendency to crank that reputation to 11. I bet it would be hard to fin a guy on here who wouldn't make a great man-crush and cuddle bunny.

But don't be jealous, just because I cannot promise to be faithful does not mean we cannot have something special together ;-)

You're gonna get along fine here. Which begs the question... Your origin date is 2010, but you've only recently delved into The Den and other, more conversational forums on this site. I'm curious... what brought about this newfound curiosity in this portion of the site...???

 

[lucusloc]

You're gonna get along fine here. Which begs the question... Your origin date is 2010, but you've only recently delved into The Den and other, more conversational forums on this site. I'm curious... what brought about this newfound curiosity in this portion of the site...???

Started buying guns again after a long hiatus. Trying to get back into the hobby as a hobby again, not just something that is necessary. Stuff like competition, hunting, collecting and all the other fluff. I got on this site way back when basically only to trade/buy/sell, now I am poking around for the fun of it. I am looking forwards to the meets and other social stuff, but I have no idea how often that kind of stuff happens.

 

[sobo]

Started buying guns again after a long hiatus. Trying to get back into the hobby as a hobby again, not just something that is necessary. Stuff like competition, hunting, collecting and all the other fluff. I got on this site way back when basically only to trade/buy/sell, now I am poking around for the fun of it. I am looking forwards to the meets and other social stuff, but I have no idea how often that kind of stuff happens.

Well, allow me to the first to officially welcome you to this side of the board. Spaceman Spiff, the world (this side of the board) is your oyster. May you find nothing but pearls...

I'm watching a flick on another tab, so I must be about it. Welcome, and adieu!

 

[lucusloc]

Well, allow me to the first to officially welcome you to this side of the board. Spaceman Spiff, the world (this side of the board) is your oyster. May you find nothing but pearls...

I'm watching a flick on another tab, so I must be about it. Welcome, and adieu!

Why thank you good sir, do let me know when there is an in-person shindig and I shall endeavor to attend. I too must be off, I have only been reluctant to engage in basic hygiene since these conversations have been so active and I really must be about it too. Until next time.

 

[Mikej]

We sound to be much alike...

A giant Jack@ss who likes to push buttons when they see them? I agree!

Ahhh, nothing quit like the blossoming of a Bromance!

And dare I suggest? Not one, but TWO engineers?

 

[bradsteen]

So if you order one of these safes and the manufacture refuses to give a refund based on the merits of your claim, what do you do? Leave a bad review? These companies change names like toilet paper. They do not care about bad reviews, they will market an item until it no longer sells under that name, then simply change he name and market the exact same trash as a "different" product. And when you try to sue that company for false or misleading marketing guess what? The export country (China) takes the official position that it was your fault for buying the product in the first place.

China only cares about "their reputation" when their scams are egregious enough to potentially affect import laws, like the whole issue with the poison dog food a few years ago. Both Europe and the U.S. were a hair's breadth away from enacting import bans on Chinese products in that market category, so China had to step in an enact legal sanctions against the factory in question, least they lose basically their entire export market for the product.

They do not do that for most all other market segments, relying on the legal fig-leaf-of-defense that some kind of product was shipped to the customer, and quality or fitment for service be damned. In this particular case Amazon is not even allowing reviews and comments on the product, so the listing is staying up and buyers cannot easily find honest assessments of the item when it is most pertinent for them to have the information (on the product listing page). And even if that listing gets enough negative coverage that sales taper off, the product will simply be relisted (possibly with some minor cosmetic changes) under a new brand name. It will be impossible for the average consumer to link the old known-bad product with the new one.

We have laws against false and deceptive marketing for a reason. This is to present liability to a company above and beyond what a single consumer or class of consumers can muster. If you present a product as fit for service it must meat the minimum expected requirements for that service. If it does not you should be facing civil sanctions for false advertising in addition to whatever liability you face from individual consumers wanting refunds and damages. This prevents a company from simply marking up their fake product enough to cover the individual liability and ensure a profit no matter how many claims they receive. The additional civil liability they face from regulators should be enough to wipe out any potential profit they can scam from consumers, which has proven to be enough to keep the worst of these actors out of the general marketplace (at least in countries that can muster good enforcement of such laws).

A market economy that does not enact such measures is a market economy that basically sanctions fraud. Because at the end of the day that is what false advertising boils down to; pure, simple, basic fraud. You say you will deliver one thing, then you knowingly and intentionally send the customer something else entirely, pocketing the difference in price-vs.-expectation for yourself.

I do not know about you, but I do not think an economy that sanctions naked fraud is one that will survive very long. Nearly all economic transactions require some base level of trust. Without that trust commerce will grind to a halt and violence will become the transactional medium of choice.

Our consumer protection laws don't apply in other countries, and the US government has done little to stem the tide of counterfeit, subpar, and outright dangerous products coming from China. It's not a new phenomenon - it's been this way for decades. Our elected officials could enact laws to restrict trade with countries who actively endorse and support companies that do this stuff. But they won't, and they keep getting elected, so nothing is going to change. Especially when China owns the majority of our national debt.

Trying to make foreign manufacturers meet "minimum requirements" aside from basic safety standards on specific products (which already exist) isn't realistic because the consumer sets their own requirements threshold. For some, "metal box with lock on it" is good enough. Others will have done research and thought through their needs, so their requirements will be much more specific. It's your money, and it's your choice what to spend it on, so the responsibility for vetting that purchase is yours as well. Nobody else can or should be able to decide what is "good enough" for you.

Companies like Amazon enable the purchase of cheap foreign goods, but they have mechanisms in place to deal with fraud, counterfeit goods, deceptive marketing, and dangerous products. They have teams of people whose full time job is identifying and shutting down those sellers. They also have mechanisms to deal with transaction disputes - if people report issues, Amazon steps in and deals with the seller.

The restriction on reviews is a legitimate one - reviews are intended to provide buyers with a mechanism to publicly provide feedback on their purchase so that others make more informed buying decisions. Allowing people who haven't purchased the product to leave reviews would enable companies to falsely inflate their review scores or trash their competitors without any checks and balances.

If you choose to buy a product direct from a seller in China, you're knowingly taking a risk that you'll get an inferior product. If that product costs substantially less than its peers in the marketplace, you're taking a risk because other products are priced that way for a reason - cost of manufacturing, parts, labor, etc. None of this is news to anyone. If someone spends $100 on a cheap gun safe and discovers it's garbage, yes it sucks for them, but they've also learned a lesson to vet their purchases before clicking the "buy" button. You can call it paying for life experience, or a lazy tax, or whatever you want.

 

[Koda]

I honestly dont know why anyone still buys most things on Amazon (or Ebay...). If you find something you like and cant buy it direct from the mfg somethings wrong. And the prices are not anything different than full retail worth considering.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If you choose to buy a product direct from a seller in a foreign country, you're knowingly taking a risk that you'll get an inferior product.

Doesn't always ring true for products from Switzerland, Germany, England, France, Czech Republic, Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan, Canada, even Mexico.

If everything cost the same for materials and labor everywhere then yes you could claim that US products are superior to most foreign products but that just isn't true these days; Japan and Taiwan have held the distinction of quality electronics for a long time, many other things are simply better from certain countries for the money because materials costs less in those countries, or the value of the money is different compared to the US. With that said... its very dependent on the value of goods and services. The US has exported the majority of manufacturing and industrial jobs overseas since the 1970s. We are no longer the industrial powerhouse we were in WW2 to Vietnam War era.

I honestly dont know why anyone still buys most things on Amazon (or Ebay...). If you find something you like and cant buy it direct from the mfg somethings wrong. And the prices are not anything different than full retail worth considering.

There's some products that just aren't made right now .. for example.. Ontario Knife Co stuff since Ontario went under this year I think. same could be said for some firearm accessories and stuff but it ain't like you'll find them on Ebay or Amazon anyhow

Print media is something that Amazon is pretty dang good at, although yes sometimes it's best to go to local bookstores, sometimes the bookstores just don't have what one is looking for but Amazon does.

 

[bradsteen]

Doesn't always ring true for products from Switzerland, Germany, England, France, Czech Republic, Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan, Canada, even Mexico.

Fair point. Should have said "China". Post corrected.

 

[Koda]

There's some products that just aren't made right now

yes, but Im only referring to new things that are still in production not collectables or products no longer in production.

 

[sobo]

Ahhh, nothing quit like the blossoming of a Bromance!

And dare I suggest? Not one, but TWO engineers?

By his own admission, Spaceman Spiff is not an engineer. He mentioned non-government security in another thread...

 

[lucusloc]

View attachment 1751008



By his own admission, Spaceman Spiff is not an engineer. He mentioned non-government security in another thread...

Actually I am, as I have mentioned elsewhere. You have to put the pieces together but I am a cyber security engineer for the private sector. I build and enforce various security protocols to keep bad people from doing bad things (and more often stupid people from doing stupid things).

 

[sobo]

Actually I am, as I have mentioned elsewhere. You have to put the pieces together but I am a cyber security engineer for the private sector. I build and enforce various security protocols to keep bad people from doing bad things (and more often stupid people from doing stupid things).

Then I stand corrected, good sir. I musta missed that other post. Upon your mention of "non-governmental security", my mind immediately went to the "Blackwater" and other related companies' version of "private security." My apologies for my assumption. In my own defense, although I spend an inordinate amount of time on this site, I can't read every post.

Now that I know you're an engineer, too, I like you even more. There, I said it...