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Legal/Illegal ammunition?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by CharlesAFerg, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Are there any national/federal ammunition bans? Does the state of Oregon have any specific regulations?

    The reason I am bringing this up is because I haven't seen any 7.62x51mm penetrator rounds, and when I looked around, somebody mentioned that it was illegal. I'd like to cover as much ground here as possible, because I have a hard time believing that there is some type of ban on ordinary small arm ammunition, specifically such ammunition that is used by the military.

    Anyway, I'd like your thoughts.
     
  2. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    Penetrator? Do you mean steel core ammo?

    I've never heard it called "penetrator" ammo. That sounds too tacticool, kind of like "extreme shock" ammo.

    Try looking for steel core or AP rounds. They are abundant considering the demand... which is almost non-existent.
     
  3. magnum

    magnum Springfield American....'nuff said

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    Remington penetrator loads were .223 55gr bullets loaded into a plastic sabot then loaded into 30/30, 308, 30/06 cases. They had a much higher velocity as it was a 55gr bullet backed by the larger cases full powder charge. These were factory remington loads in the mid/late 80's. I actually threw some in on a deal with a rifle trade recently. I haven't seen any currently made loads like them at all.
    Side note: these were intended for bolt action or single shot guns. They were not designed to function in a semi auto. never tried myself, only shot them out of my 700.:D
     
  4. Bam

    Bam Portland Member

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    You aren't looking hard enough... I have seen several guys selling 7.62x51mm steel core "AP" rounds at the gun show.
     
  5. magnum

    magnum Springfield American....'nuff said

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    I haven't been looking. Just FYI for the OP.:D
     
  6. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    I thought those were called accelerators and they were banned if I remember correctly as there were no rifling marks do to the plastic stripping like a sabot.
     
  7. U201494

    U201494 Well-Known Member

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    Back in the bad old days (last century) the Remington sabot ammo was named "Accelerator", and as mentioned above, offered a 55 gr, .224 bullet in a sabot loaded into a 30.30, 30.06, or .308. I shot a jack rabbit with one out of my 30.06 and that rabbit disappeared! Accuracy was mostly terrible beyond 75 yards or so, but it would turn a small critter into a greasy red spot.
    Don't know if they're still around or not.
     
  8. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Steel core "penetrator" ammo is not "armor piercing" really. I mean, it is sorta, but not *really.* It isn't going to get through level IV plates.

    "Armor piercing" is always relative. It is also not illegal. Unfortunately it is hard to find even in the military, and as a civilian no one will sell it to you directly. Terminal ballistics are really terrible though, so unless you absolutely know you're going up against people with hard armor for some reason it isn't worth it. It's like shooting people with a .22lr lol. I guess that is with M995 5.56 though, I dunno about .308.
     
  9. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    just going off the top of my head, but i'm pretty sure "armor piercing" ammunition is federally banned. in fact, i'll put a $1 on it.

    green tips/m855, while armor piercing by design, are NOT considered "armor piercing" by the federal regulation.. hence, they're legal.
     
  10. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    iirc, the only regulation regarding armor piercing ammo is related to pistol ammo. Which, by the way, does not cover 5.7x28 AP ammo as that only penetrates soft armor. FN just doesn't sell it due to political reasons (though you can buy reloads from places like eliteammunition.com).

    Also, I dunno about the 7.62x51 since I don't have one, but in my AR-15 I'd rather use something like Hornandy 75gr TAP or Black Hills 77gr mk. 262 even if I could buy m995 off the shelf. Terminal ballistics are WAY better (fragmenting). Most home defense situations aren't going to involve foes wearing hard armor, and in the unlikely event that it does, just aim for the hips/pelvis area instead of center of mass.
     
  11. novamind

    novamind Hillsboro Active Member

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    Bought some AP and explosive tipped 50 BMG @gun shoe two years ago, all hard core AP ammo was more common years ago, shot alot up for fun .You can still find it around.
     
  12. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Perhaps I'm the only one to say this, but for the federal government to ban armor piercing ammunition seems blatantly unconstitutional.

    Not necessarily.
    It's got a steel "penetrator rod" in the tip. (Yes, it's suggestive wording.)


    I wasn't really looking, I was asking yourself and other board members what they knew about the legality of such rounds.


    You're right, they would be terrible for home defense. I can assume that everybody realizes why.


    What about steel core, like SS109?
    With that said, what is classified as armor piercing?
     
  13. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    Most of, say for an example the 7.62x54R / 7.62x39 soviet/polish/bulgarian spam can stuff is steel core but it is not armor piercing. If you look hard enough ap is out there in quanities.
    30.06 ARMOR PIERCING BLACK TIP - QTY 1 ROUND - $2.00 : Buymilsurp.com, Your source for military surplus.

    No records are required for ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition.
    ** Disposition records must be kept by licensed manufacturers, importers, and collectors for transactions in armor piercing ammunition.

    ATF [27 CFR 178.125]
     
  14. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    SS109/M855 (green tip) is not classified as armor piercing, it will not defeat most rifle armor plates, but it does penetrate materials better than the old M193 and it does fragment. I believe it penetrates some crappy soviet armor. And all soft armor of course like all rifle ammunition.

    M995 (black tip) has a tungsten penetrator, it is *maybe* capable of defeating level IV plates. It does not fragment and hardly anyone uses it. Pretty much it is only useful when fighting against (very) lightly armored vehicles, otherwise it is better just to hit them a few times with m855. Against vehicles you should probably be using something bigger than 5.56 anyway lul. IIRC, it is almost impossible to get even if you are mil/leo and it only comes as linked machine gun ammo.

    It is the best stuff ever.
     
  15. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    Not so. I have never read any law banning bullets that does not have rifling marks left on it. Have you?

    Ranb
     
  16. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    There is no such thing as armor piercing rifle ammo in the US as it relates to legal possession. The US code defines armor piercing rifle ammo in one of its disposal regulations, but it does not prohibit possession there.
    http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt
    Do not try to limit your choice of ammo based on internet rumor, go to the law and find out. :)

    Ranb
     
  17. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Whoooaaaah now *that* would be a cool bullet!
     
  18. Ranb

    Ranb Belfair, WA Active Member

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    I bought a couple boxes (1350 pieces) of 50 cal armor piercing incendiary a while back. It was the cheapest stuff on the menu and is fun to shoot. Just have to clean the soot off of the white gong once in a while. :)

    Ranb
     
  19. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Ummm---my box says 30.06 ACCELERATOR ammunition, not "penetrator".
     
  20. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    No dude, it's a HORRIBLE bullet as the things have a RAD count, and over time the repeated exposure will cause a 3rd testicle to form, and your future kids will be born w/o knuckles, have reptillian faces, and will only say, "gooney-goo-goo".