National Judge Rules Illegal Immigrants Can Carry Guns in the U.S.

[MichaelH]

What are you? a Dem. What your saying is let them have a gun and they have to hurt or Kill somebody and then take it away> There are none so blind as those who will not see. Sorry this is BULL

Why not? We let people "like us" do that all the time. We trust that the guy buying that rifle, 10 pack of Pmags and case of ammo isn't going to go shoot up a mall or a school. "They can't be trusted with those dangerous firearms , they don 't really need them and it's not worth the risk to society" is what the gun control folks say about me and you. What's the difference?

 

[MichaelH]

What else would you expect from an O'Bummer apointee.

She should be disbared for such a flagerant disreguarde of the constitution she swore to uphold.

The second amendment says "people" not "citizens" though the constitution says "citizens" elsewhere meaning "citizen" is specific and "people" is general. She followed the Constitution.

I'm not sure how far reaching this particular order is. The text basically says that "as it applies" to the plaintiff (the illegal) and due to the fact that he has no prior weapons charges and the non violent offense he was arrested for... the charge was dismissed. (Ignoring the fact that he committed a felony by being in the US illegally from the get go...)

It does set a precedent that could be used in similar cases but also stated that their ruling has no affect on any existing state or federal laws.

Does that mean it's a one off specific only for him? Does it immediately make it legal for all illegals to own firearms anywhere within the courts jurisdiction?

How did he come into possession if he is not legally able to purchase a firearm? Smuggled it illegally over the border?

I dunno.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

It's a misdemeanor if he hasn't ever been deported, as maximum jail time is 6 months.

Do any of you feel more sympathetic that he appears to have armed himself because of fear of civil unrest during the BLM protests!?

Frankly, I think this thread is hilarious!

 

[BrentN]

Frankly, I think this thread is hilarious!

Agree 100%, illegal's need to be deported post haste, not made the useful idiot of some affirmative action hire.

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

Appreciate you Man!

I worked my way thru college attending both Junior College and University simultaneously (which by rules wasn't allowed) while living in a 17 foot travel trailer. My 20 year old car caught on FIRE on the way to Final Exams one time cuz the fuel lines were made of rubber and eventually dried out and cracked, spraying fuel all over the engine compartment. Re-Wired those with Bell wire from the local hardware store. Could not afford a Parking Permit at University so I parked 6 blocks away from campus and lugged my books every day. Only thing I could afford at the University Cafeteria was French Fries, so my lunch was French Fries and a small coffee. But No Student Loans. No help from family.

Kids today are spoiled.

Just look at the bright side... Those experiences you had on crucial moments are the timelines. It's what made who you are. Heck I could hardly even remember my boss handing my paycheck but I do remember caught on midterm (no thanks to a few of my classmates taking notes in the exam). I begged them to re-take the exam in any way the want until they grant me. No problem because I memorized the whole book from A to Z and I really like trigonometry too. I use to study 11 hours every weekend. It took a while when it started clicking till it start connecting.
Your timeline will always be the nutting things you did that turned into success in the end.
After college and during work machine programmer, till when I get to Pro-Engineering, it made my job a lot easier and felt like I was slowly losing my hunger till I moved on and on to more advanced designing using Solid Works. (Basically all on CAD). As I look back on my notes even today, I could not even understand the approach and mostly the new self-made formulas that my classmates brought to the table that are not even in the book. I really miss those days!

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

I really believe that any new comers in such as immigration should go to the proper channels. Just like what they say, we are a nation of immigrants and we are also a nation of law and order. They have to learn and follow the US customs and traditions and not for us to take their baggages. If they're going to do the same thing, they might as well just stay where they came, be with their parents and live happily ever after for free.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Being.an illegal alien is a disqualification on the 4473, is that going to change?

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

Isn't Texas granted the their own immigration law effective immediately that they will deport anyone in violation?

 

[Yarome]

Being.an illegal alien is a disqualification on the 4473, is that going to change?

What does it matter? This guy didn't have a FOID (required in Ill.), his firearm wasn't registered and he bought it in an off the street transaction.

Why should they worry about what's on a 4473??

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

The savage and brutal death of Nathan Riley is no political issue. The reality is this could happen to any of us including our own family and friends. I wouldn't be happy about knowing how she fought for her life and at the same time this illegal immigrant went to a 4-5 times catch and release bail reform and a revolving door to everyone.

 

[Yarome]

I'm not going to be drawn into a purely political "people" vs "the people" vs "citizen/s" in the any broadsweeping non contextual discussions. Folks are going to believe what they want to believe to support whatever ideological outcome they want. There doesn't appear to be much distinction between fantasy and fact when a political agenda is in play.

In the context of the 2A... the supreme court in both Heller and repeatedly in Bruen define "people" as "law abiding citizens". Recognizing that due legal process does allow for restrictions of those rights.

End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Yarome]

It's a misdemeanor if he hasn't ever been deported, as maximum jail time is 6 months.

Do any of you feel more sympathetic that he appears to have armed himself because of fear of civil unrest during the BLM protests!?

You're right. I stand corrected. I should have said... "Ignoring the fact that he's already a criminal by being in the US illegally from the get go"

Sympathy? Absolutely zero.

1. Being in possession of an illegal firearm without a mandatory FOID card he had no business "standing watch" outside of a local business in which he had no connection. He also had no business stepping out into an intersection and firing 7 shots at a passing vehicle, nor attempting to fire additional shots at another passing vehicle.. even though his firearm failed to discharge at the second vehicle despite repeated attempts.

His defense case was that he was told that occupants of the vehicles made verbal threats toward other "watch" members and they were believed to be armed. He did not, himself, witness any verbal threats, nor did he see any firearms, no did he claim that the vehicle was attempting to hit him. He noticed one of the vehicles swerve slightly and claims he was in fear that the vehicle may attempt to run over one of the other "watch" members and opened fire. The second vehicle made no move to indicate they might also attempt to use their vehicle as a weapon. Yet he attempted to fire on them as well.

Here's the crux:

2. No one forced him to enter the country illegally. That was his choice. He would have been aware that it was illegal for him to possess a firearm in the U.S. (especially an unregistered firearm without a FOID card), and that would preclude him from defending himself with a firearm while here.

Obviously, he decided that the potential risk to his life and inability to use a firearm for his own protection was a reasonable risk he was willing to take and made the CHOICE to cross into the U.S. illegally, anyway.

Out of desperation I can understand someone taking on risks. But... given my options... I would be using other means to maintain my personal safety. Namely... avoidance... and not out trying to play neighborhood vigilante with an illegal firearm.

Just sayin. He had a choice to enter the US illegally or not and he also had the option to button up, stay home and stay safe that day.

 

[Jay Walk]

Look up the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire.
The Globalists have studied history; they never mention it though.

 

[Dillon1000]

Found the Red Flag Law supporter. We should probably take away your guns, too, as I'm afraid you might hurt somebody. We shouldn't have to wait until you have proven yourself to be a danger either,

I was class 3 fifty five years ago. I am proven Butt Head.

 

[Honest Injun]

U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman, appointed by Barack Obama, ruled that an illegal immigrant has the right to bear arms under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

This ruling came about in the case of Heriberto Carbajal-Flores, who faced charges under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(5), a federal statute that prohibits noncitizens without legal status in the U.S. from "possess[ing] in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/03/obama-appointed-judge-rules-illegal-immigrants-can-carry/

To quote R.Lee in the " jelly donut" scene from FMJ. "Holy Jesus" I knew that administration and the present were/are using the illegals to the detriment of the nation but the right to possess a firearm? Talk about a convoluted way to manipulate numbers. Chico Escuela walks into El Paso and then he has the full protection of the law. That fact alone undermines the modern interpretation of the ammendment. I want my president back! Letting undocumented,illegals that right is detrimental to America. America can be great again. Legal or legalized citizens should be the only voters. Would I be able to vote should I gain entrance to a different country? H no! After some interrogation I would be returned or imprisoned in facilities not having the luxuries of incarceration encountered in America. Not here
Winter coats snow boots and heavy socks, Ramen and sugar smacks, Dipidy-do and Clearacil can all be had in American prisons. Would a Costa Rican prison do that? Should the benevolence of America be taken advantage of so just getting arrested gives you the right to the protections the laws provides the legal citizens and a better quality of life it provides the most deserving and needy?

 

[MichaelH]

The savage and brutal death of Nathan Riley is no political issue. The reality is this could happen to any of us including our own family and friends. I wouldn't be happy about knowing how she fought for her life and at the same time this illegal immigrant went to a 4-5 times catch and release bail reform and a revolving door to everyone.

Ok, this thread is clearly running a bit off the rails from this site's rules regarding discussions of a political nature unrelated to firearms and firearms legal issues because it is difficult to separate opinions about the defendant's immigration status and the court's dismissal of his criminal charges on 2A grounds. Obviously discussions of crime touch on firearms possession and ownership for self-defense purposes. How the defendant acquired his firearm seems to remain a legal question prompting me to wonder why he seems to not have been charged for HOW he acquired his firearm (his case was dismissed so I assume the prosecutors did not charge on the transfer issues) vs. the separate question of whether the 2A protects the defendant's right to own or possess a firearm. It's also pretty clear to me many commenters have a serious lack of knowledge of the principles of Separation of Powers and the roles of the prosecution vs. the role of the judiciary, and misunderstandings of the limits of executive power in our Constitutional system.

This discussion about a particular 2A ruling has then morphed to concerns about the ruling and how it might signal to immigrants who entered the US illegally that they can legally possess firearms. Unfortunately that has lead to assertions about the criminality of those immigrants, presumably because politicians have made assertions about those immigrants for political purposes. Because the discussion does that and touches the issue of the legality of firearms ownership as it relates to self defense to be informed of the relevant risks such a ruling poses to firearms rights and public safety, it seems real data rather than thoughts or anecdotes about any particular crime, like the murder of Ms. Riley, is necessary.

To that end one of the only studies that comprehensively tracks the issue of immigration status and criminality tracked arrests and convictions in Texas. The reason the study focused on Texas is it has one of the largest undocumented immigrant populations in the US AND Texas law enforcement officers are mandated to track and report immigrant status for every arrest for charges where jail time is a possibility and cooperate with CBP to advise them of the immigrant status of those arrested. The conclusions suggest the opposite of some of the assumptions voiced here. I note that I am not someone who thinks there should be no immigration laws or that those who have entered the US illegally shouldn't be subject to existing immigration laws. My opinions on using my local tax dollars and law enforcement resources on immigration enforcement instead of preventing or solving crime for potential or actual victims, or policies designed to protect illegal immigrants to encourage them to interact with law enforcement, prosecutors, and courts to detect, prevent and prosecute crime are probably different than many on here.

The Cliff Notes on the findings are:

"Relative to native-born citizens and legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants have the lowest felony arrest rates across all four crime types. For violent, property, and drug offenses, legal immigrants occupy a middle position between undocumented immigrants and US-born citizens. The gaps between native-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are substantial: US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. These latter two findings are noteworthy. Previous research suggests that immigrants with marginal economic prospects are more heavily involved in property crime (25–27), and it is plausible that drug markets may offer undocumented immigrants opportunities denied in the legitimate labor market. However, we find no evidence that undocumented immigrants are more heavily involved in property or drug offenses in Texas."

The link to the study conducted by researchers at the University of Wisconsin is here:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

FWIW the data is linked in the study abstract.

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

Ok, this thread is clearly running a bit off the rails from this site's rules regarding discussions of a political nature unrelated to firearms and firearms legal issues......

It could be and its evident that falls on the same as the title itself to begin with and with the growing discussions itself. The more you write, the longer you hold to where its its hitting all avenues. I thought we were also talking about safety and trying to do something right about it?

"Judge Rules Illegal Immigrants Can Carry Guns in the U.S."

 

[Yarome]

The link to the study conducted by researchers at the University of Wisconsin is here:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

Here's a fun statistic. Multiple studies, including an 85 year Harvard study, have concluded that over 90% of studies conducted reach conclusions in-line with the ideology of those funding the study.

 

[Ura-Ki]

So, the 2nd is an absolute right according to this judge, good, Phuck off with the gun control bullsh!t and leave me the hell alone, no more back ground checks, or carry permits, or any of the other stupid bullsh!t hoops we law abiding Gringos are forced to go through!

How the phuck can an Illegal pass a BGC if they are automatically felons for crossing our border illegally?
How do they get to pass go and collect $200, their obummer phone, and tax breaks, whilst I must apply for and wait to be given permission to own and carry a firearm?
I see we still have two standards of law, one for "Them" and one for Us, the law abiding! Phuck Me, pass the Aspirin!




I Aim to Misbehave, Up the Republic!

 

[Hanhoon]

That's awesome news. If this isn't solid proof as to the phukary in your face, I don't know what else it would take to wake people up.

When it all fails, they take you to war and when you lose it and have nothing left to lose, you lose it (Gerald Celente).

I do not blame judges or politicians or any other degenerate forms of life. I blame you and I for allowing things to go this far. We will pay a heavy price and we shall see how much we truly love our country.

We have the ability to fight and take our country back from these demons, but time will tell. Make no mistake, full evil is at play. I am blessed with a job that allows me to spend hours researching. I still have a long way to go but I have learned a lot. I carry the weight of that knowledge on my shoulders and it is very heavy and upsetting. John Connaly said (in the early 1990s) that if people knew or had a clue (something like that), there would be a revolution in this country.

As a little boy that went to h3ll several times growing up, I remember how things were thirty years ago in this state, I moved to Oregon from the Middle East when I was ten years old. Then I look at how things are today and I get a rush of sadness, anger, disappointment, and disgust going through me. Some of you can understand how hard it is to maintain and stay in control, but I digress.

All those men and women that gave their lives for you and I, protecting our freedom and future, IMO we have taken a huge dump on their graves. Look at what we have become as a country.

Get those lap belts on, nice and tight. We are gonna see some real crap like we haven't seen in a long time. You think all these illegals coming to this country are here to bake cookies? If I was a terrorist, what better time to sneak in and build up. I mean, we left billions of dollars in Afghanistan and updated their weapons inventory. So why would it be a problem letting illegals have guns? Don't be racist y'all.

Oooooh the Kardashians are on, gotta go lol.

 

[Honest Injun]

Ok, this thread is clearly running a bit off the rails from this site's rules regarding discussions of a political nature unrelated to firearms and firearms legal issues because it is difficult to separate opinions about the defendant's immigration status and the court's dismissal of his criminal charges on 2A grounds. Obviously discussions of crime touch on firearms possession and ownership for self-defense purposes. How the defendant acquired his firearm seems to remain a legal question prompting me to wonder why he seems to not have been charged for HOW he acquired his firearm (his case was dismissed so I assume the prosecutors did not charge on the transfer issues) vs. the separate question of whether the 2A protects the defendant's right to own or possess a firearm. It's also pretty clear to me many commenters have a serious lack of knowledge of the principles of Separation of Powers and the roles of the prosecution vs. the role of the judiciary, and misunderstandings of the limits of executive power in our Constitutional system.

This discussion about a particular 2A ruling has then morphed to concerns about the ruling and how it might signal to immigrants who entered the US illegally that they can legally possess firearms. Unfortunately that has lead to assertions about the criminality of those immigrants, presumably because politicians have made assertions about those immigrants for political purposes. Because the discussion does that and touches the issue of the legality of firearms ownership as it relates to self defense to be informed of the relevant risks such a ruling poses to firearms rights and public safety, it seems real data rather than thoughts or anecdotes about any particular crime, like the murder of Ms. Riley, is necessary.

To that end one of the only studies that comprehensively tracks the issue of immigration status and criminality tracked arrests and convictions in Texas. The reason the study focused on Texas is it has one of the largest undocumented immigrant populations in the US AND Texas law enforcement officers are mandated to track and report immigrant status for every arrest for charges where jail time is a possibility and cooperate with CBP to advise them of the immigrant status of those arrested. The conclusions suggest the opposite of some of the assumptions voiced here. I note that I am not someone who thinks there should be no immigration laws or that those who have entered the US illegally shouldn't be subject to existing immigration laws. My opinions on using my local tax dollars and law enforcement resources on immigration enforcement instead of preventing or solving crime for potential or actual victims, or policies designed to protect illegal immigrants to encourage them to interact with law enforcement, prosecutors, and courts to detect, prevent and prosecute crime are probably different than many on here.

The Cliff Notes on the findings are:

"Relative to native-born citizens and legal immigrants, undocumented immigrants have the lowest felony arrest rates across all four crime types. For violent, property, and drug offenses, legal immigrants occupy a middle position between undocumented immigrants and US-born citizens. The gaps between native-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are substantial: US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. These latter two findings are noteworthy. Previous research suggests that immigrants with marginal economic prospects are more heavily involved in property crime (25–27), and it is plausible that drug markets may offer undocumented immigrants opportunities denied in the legitimate labor market. However, we find no evidence that undocumented immigrants are more heavily involved in property or drug offenses in Texas."

The link to the study conducted by researchers at the University of Wisconsin is here:

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

FWIW the data is linked in the study abstract.

Is the information used empirical? It smacks of an extreme definition. Also how can one( not necessarily the author) introduce research relative to what? Is there a coefficient for "relative to the native-born and documented"? No documents mean unrecorded and that shouldn't happen seeing as how the immigrant is afforded resources not available to the native citizens
They have committed the illegal act of gaining entrance to the United States by a means other than an established border crossing. Transportation, housing, healthcare, groceries are things I have to pay for. Bodenomics is making the price of commodities increase to the detriment of the middle/lower income citizens. Ain't but one thing to say...MAGA baby MAGA!