latest Sig 320 spontaneously discharge

[DirectDrive]

All the arguments against Sig have been flawed. And the more we dig into this the more evidence it's the user.
But the real irony here is the huge elephant in the closet, a manual safety. Sadly, I dont see the community or industry admitting that anytime soon.

Another poster brought this up - sigfreund on SIGforum
Confirmation Bias - the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories
The second paragraph in quotes is exactly how Montville PD handled their recent ND.

But if we're going to ask why other guns don't have the problem, what about has been asked about the P320? Why is it only LEOs whose guns seem to go off by themselves? I suspect the reports are a form of confirmation bias. As an example I've used before, if a rookie cop walked into his chief's office and claimed that his Glock had gone off by itself, he'd be laughed out of the place, if not fired on the spot. Once a product gets a reputation that's picked up in the popular consciousness, that grows on itself.

"What the hell happened?
"I don't know why it fired; it just seemed to go off by itself."
"Yeah, those P320s have that problem. Do a Google search."
"Hey, chief, everyone else is having the same problem. It wasn't anything I did."

Manual Safety
That's another issue as mentioned by 1775usmc above.
However, I think it could be argued that if SIG had offered a MS version as optional on the P320, maybe they wouldn't have the monkey on their back.

 

[Member 53328]

@WillametteWill I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on mechanical safeties vs. training on handguns. Except for say a 1911…

If stress causes someone to pull a trigger prematurely I could also argue that under stress an individual would forget/be unable to release the safety mechanism and potentially loose their life.

It really is a double edge sword.

Still respect and appreciate your perspective on things though.

 

[Kruel J]

@WillametteWill I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on mechanical safeties vs. training on handguns. Except for say a 1911…

If stress causes someone to pull a trigger prematurely I could also argue that under stress an individual would forget/be unable to release the safety mechanism and potentially loose their life.

It really is a double edge sword.

Still respect and appreciate your perspective on things though.

I was going to say something similar.

 

[Member 53328]

I was going to say something similar.

The entire time I was in the Marines and carried a M9 I had one chambered and the safety off. Granted it's a DA/SA gun but I could easily cock the hammer back while the firearm was holstered allowing for a SA pull on initial presentation.

Was it against SOP… YUP! Did I ever ND… NOPE! I also went out of my way and used my own money to buy my holster and other gear as long as it fell in the perimeters of the order. Seeing some others carry in drop leg Blackhawk SERPAs made me cringe.

By the way…. I hate the M9. Lol.

 

[Kruel J]

Even though its assumed that there is all this Sig hate, I would still like an X-Five.

 

[Kruel J]

I would never carry it, but this has caught my eye:

P320-XFIVE DH3

The P320-XFIVE DH3 is ready for any application that calls for speed, precision, and capacity.

www.sigsauer.com

 

[Member 53328]

Even though its assumed that there is all this Sig hate, I would still like an X-Five.

I carried one for about 6 months. Best striker fired pistol I have ever shot out of the box. Stupid smooth.

 

[Koda]

I would never carry it, but this has caught my eye:

P320-XFIVE DH3

The P320-XFIVE DH3 is ready for any application that calls for speed, precision, and capacity.

www.sigsauer.com

Im guessing if you bought one youd end up carrying it. Those are too nice not to.

 

[DirectDrive]

I would never carry it, but this has caught my eye:

P320-XFIVE DH3

The P320-XFIVE DH3 is ready for any application that calls for speed, precision, and capacity.

www.sigsauer.com

Race gun and ready to rock

 

[Member 53328]

And for everyone that thinks I'm just hating on Sig that's not the case. Love Sig and I like the P320. I just won't carry it. I don't knock anyone that does.

 

[Kruel J]

Race gun and ready to rock

Exactly what I was thinking, See? I'm not hating on Sig, I just think there is a POSSIBILITY the 320 has issues. But I still want that thing!

 

[Kruel J]

Race gun and ready to rock

Not gonna lie, I've always had a crush on sexy race guns.

 

[DirectDrive]

Exactly what I was thinking, See? I'm not hating on Sig, I just think there is a POSSIBILITY the 320 has issues. But I still want that thing!

If they had issues, I'd be the first to know.
My range X-Five (s) :
Apex trigger bar
Keres fully adjustable trigger
Gray Guns competition spring kit
minimal take-up and over-travel
2+lb pull weight
27+1
21+1
17+1

Load it up on Sunday and shoot all week

 

[WillametteWill]

If stress causes someone to pull a trigger prematurely I could also argue that under stress an individual would forget/be unable to release the safety mechanism and potentially loose their life.

Here is an area where I bet we completely agree...many shooters who have guns with manual safeties do not practice with them like they should. I harp on this when training others. Since many do not practice holster draws (easy to do at home with a triple-checked, empty gun) to build the Procedural Memory for activation/de-activation of the safety, they are at risk of forgetting to click the safety off. At the range, if you have a gun with a safety during play dates with ammunition, we should be using the safety to build these pathways as well. (Side note, we should pick up magazines from the bench so we are holding them just like when they come out of a mag pouch for the same reason.)

This is why I noted that safety and training are not mutually exclusive of one another but vital that if you have a safety you must train properly. With Procedural Memory, we are less affected by stress than we are with startle response and interlimb actions.

Good point.

The entire time I was in the Marines and carried a M9 I had one chambered and the safety off.

I carried a S&W 5904, also safety off and in the DA mode. With 12ish , looooong pounds of pull to the first shot it works just like a revolver. It was a comfortable gun to carry. What I don't recall hearing much of during the window when Sig 226s, 5900 series S&W, Beretta 92s and DA/SA Rugers (that I swear were built in a Russian tank factory, and doubled as a maul) were THE guns, were NDs. I'm sure they were out there but it was Glocks that were the target, with departments opting for heavier triggers after NDs increased. We are clearly in a different time now.

 

[Member 53328]

If they had issues, I'd be the first to know.
My range X-Five (s) :
Apex trigger bar
Keres fully adjustable trigger
Gray Guns competition spring kit
minimal take-up and over-travel
2+lb pull weight
27+1
21+1
17+1

Load it up on Sunday and shoot all week

Shooting the X5 Legion is originally what got me to switch from Glock to P320 for a short period of time.

No wonder my back is jacked up….. that was a heavy gun. Lol.

 

[WillametteWill]

xactly what I was thinking, See? I'm not hating on Sig, I just think there is a POSSIBILITY the 320 has issues. But I still want that thing!

If Sig is a woman's name and you change "320" into "she" then it is easily relatable for many (or dude's name and "he" depending on your gender)

 

[DirectDrive]

That long DA pull is a good "safety"

 

[Kruel J]

If they had issues, I'd be the first to know.

Would you though? Meaning are you a gunsmith or a mechanical engineer or do you work for Sig? That's almost more my point in this entire thread! How can you say with such conviction that the 320 has no issues with nothing more than your personal experience to back it up?

 

[DirectDrive]

Would you though? Meaning are you a gunsmith or a mechanical engineer or do you work for Sig? That's almost more my point in this entire thread! How can you say with such conviction that the 320 has no issues with nothing more than your personal experience to back it up?

I can read tea leaves ?

ETA
Just saying that if spontaneous discharge is really a thing, then my X-Five triggers don't have to physically travel as "far" as a bone-stock P320.

 

[Kruel J]

I can read tea leaves ?

I don't know what that means.