Looking for information on negligent discharge occurrence and brand, type, and position of non duty carry pistols.

[Mikej]

Word choice, dude. You are clearly biased on this topic and using progressive-style demeaning language to make your opinion the only valid one.

Oh OHHH, you said the "P" word.

 

[lucusloc]

Word choice, dude. You are clearly biased on this topic and using progressive-style demeaning language to make your opinion the only valid one.

Really? Just no, I am not trying to force anyone to conform to my ideals. You can just take that "argument" and walk. All I am doing is presenting an argument for why things are the way they are and letting other do with that as they will. See my rimfire BB analogy in my prior comment for an example. It is import for us to be able to challenge false conceptions and present arguments for why they are incorrect. You may not like how I do that, but that does not make the actual issues any less important to discuss.

 

[IndyPrepper]

Yeah..nah. I wasn't arguing. I'm pretty sure @oremike and @Xaevian weren't arguing either. I posted an opinion. Your assertion that I'm presenting the strawman falls on its face given that I presented an article with BOTH opinions. I didn't respond to your 'argument' with only an ad-hominem attack on your methods. I presented the other side. There are two views here. Not just yours. You act as if we're discussing whether the earth is flat. If that were the case then I would have let your FACTS that the earth is round stand. Because, you know..it is.

 

[Mikej]

Yeah..nah. I wasn't arguing. I'm pretty sure @Mikej and @Xaevian weren't arguing either. I posted an opinion. Your assertion that I'm presenting the strawman falls on its face given that I presented an article with BOTH opinions. I didn't respond to your 'argument' with only an ad-hominem attack on your methods. I presented the other side. There are two views here. Not just yours. You act as if we're discussing whether the earth is flat. If that were the case then I would have let your FACTS that the earth is round stand. Because, you know..it is.

I think maybe you meant @oremike ? I'm just watching the show. Not IN the show, on this one.

 

[IndyPrepper]

I think maybe you meant @oremike ? I'm just watching the show. Not IN the show, on this one.

Sorry..yeah the other mike @oremike

 

[lucusloc]

Yeah..nah. I wasn't arguing. I'm pretty sure @Mikej and @Xaevian weren't arguing either. I posted an opinion. Your assertion that I'm presenting the strawman falls on its face given that I presented an article with BOTH opinions. I didn't respond to your 'argument' with only an ad-hominem attack on your methods. I presented the other side. There are two views here. Not just yours. You act as if we're discussing whether the earth is flat. If that were the case then I would have let your FACTS that the earth is round stand. Because, you know..it is.

The facts are that we have an awful lot of examples of defensive cases where the victim would be dead if they carried chamber empty. The facts are that with the proper equipment chamber loaded is as safe as chamber empty. That should be all you need to know to know the earth is round.

Q.E.D; as soon as chamber loaded became as safe as chamber empty chamber empty became an outdated method of carry.

If you still want to carry how you carry that is fine. There are still people who carry SA revolvers with the chamber under the hammer empty. That is all well and good, but I am not going to tell someone asking questions about carry that that is an optimal method. That is what this discussion is about; giving people all the most relevant information so that they can make informed choices.

 

[WillametteWill]

As noted by many already in this thread....Practice.
Practice carrying around the house...
Practice carrying when doing everyday chores....
Practice carrying when doing the things that you do all throughout your work day....
Practice carrying when using the bathroom / restroom ...

Ensure that your firearm is empty and again , practice...
Practice drawing and re-holstering your firearm.
Practice carrying , drawing and re-holstering , with the different clothes that you wear....
Practice from drawing your firearm in different positions like sitting vs. standing....

I'm pretty sure this could be crafted as being written by Dr. Seuss

Some good thoughts in the prior posts. Just a couple more thoughts. The slightly larger M&P EZ series holds 8+1, can be equipped with a manual safety if desired (along with the grip safety) and has a very nice trigger as an internal hammer, not striker fired gun. I completely agree that the primary way to avoid NDs is through safe gun handling with brain cells front an center 100% of the time when handling a firearm. Finger control and muzzle direction must be a constant thought, especially when something goes "wrong" (e..g., malfunctions, interruptions along with reloading and racking slides).

I'm a fan of manual safeties (and respect those who are not) as one extra layer of protection. Many here have politely tolerated my comments (okay, and sometimes rants) about them. Handle known-loaded firearms at a minimum and carefully (yes, all guns are treated as loaded), have a quality holster, practice with it (as Andy notes above, empty and in a safe direction), and practice manipulations (locking slide back, reloads, picking up the gun)...again, empty. This will go a long way to avoid NDs and make any of us more comfortable to be around at the range. Thoughtful post you have made.

 

[bradsteen]

Carry how works best for you, but recognize the limitations of your preferred method and train to minimize those limitations as best you can.

 

[lucusloc]

Carry how works best for you, but recognize the limitations of your preferred method and train to minimize those limitations as best you can.

Yep, and also try to remember to give that context when giving advice to less experienced people. I think that is the main sticking point in the most recent conversation here.

 

[Xaevian]

Really? Just no, I am not trying to force anyone to conform to my ideals.

Yes you are. By basically saying do it your way or the other person is a moron.

All I am doing is presenting an argument for why things are the way they are

No, you are presenting an argument for why you think your way is the best.

That is what this discussion is about; giving people all the most relevant information so that they can make informed choices.

But your aren't giving all of the relevant info, just one side.

facts are that we have an awful lot of examples of defensive cases where the victim would be dead if they carried chamber empty.

There is no actual study or analysis in existence that supports this opinion. This is purely anecdotal.

The facts are that with the proper equipment chamber loaded is as safe as chamber empty. That should be all you need to know to know the earth is round.

You can't seriously believe this. No matter what method or tech or technique, a loaded chamber cannot EVER be as safe as an unloaded one. Please find a negligent discharge where there wasn't a loaded chamber. That was rhetorical, there isn't one. Because it is not physically possible.

I don't even know why I am discussing this, since I don't care how a person carries, I just take issue with how it was presented. I see the same one sided arguments about open/concealed carry.

As Andy basically says, (major paraphrase here, @Andy54Hawken) carry how, what, and when you want. It is your life, not his.

 

[lucusloc]

Yes you are. By basically saying do it your way or the other person is a moron.


No, you are presenting an argument for why you think your way is the best.


But your aren't giving all of the relevant info, just one side.


There is no actual study or analysis in existence that supports this opinion. This is purely anecdotal.


You can't seriously believe this. No matter what method or tech or technique, a loaded chamber cannot EVER be as safe as an unloaded one. Please find a negligent discharge where there wasn't a loaded chamber. That was rhetorical, there isn't one. Because it is not physically possible.

I don't even know why I am discussing this, since I don't care how a person carries, I just take issue with how it was presented. I see the same one sided arguments about open/concealed carry.

As Andy basically says, (major paraphrase here, @Andy54Hawken) carry how, what, and when you want. It is your life, not his.

I know of at least one example of a ND that started out in a chamber empty condition. A buddy racked the slide and then removed the mag but thought he did it in reverse order. I was there for that one. Carrying chamber empty does not make one immune to NDs, and it can be just as dangerous to assume it does. This is exactly the reason this kind of discussion needs to happen, we all have our blind spots.

 

[Xaevian]

I know of at least one example of a ND that started out in a chamber empty condition. A buddy racked the slide and then removed the mag but thought he did it in reverse order. I was there for that one. Carrying chamber empty does not make one immune to NDs, and it can be just as dangerous to assume it does. This is exactly the reason this kind of discussion needs to happen, we all have our blind spots.

Much better, thank you.

 

[lucusloc]

Much better, thank you.

My original point still stands, and I still think my original tone was perfectly acceptable. I take umbrage with being compared to someone willing to force an opinion on someone else when that is not what I was dong in the slightest.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Chambered vs unchambered. Risk mitigation is an actual thing. Everyone's risk threshold is different. There are pros and cons to both methods and neither should be discounted nor discouraged based on someone else's preference.

I agree...

To each their own, carrying in any form is better than not having a firearm on you. An unloaded small pistol in an ankle holster with the rounds in your pocket is preferable to the .357 that is back at home. Personally, I carry a loaded pistol, but I do not think it is a huge advantage over an unloaded chamber. What matters is I have a gun on me.
Too many people are fixated that they will be in an old west scenario where the time it takes to draw and fire is the utmost criteria. Situational awareness is many times more important than how you carry, what caliber you carry, how many rounds your firearm holds, whether the gun has a manual safety, how many reloads you are carrying, etc...
Does it take a second longer to chamber a round? yes
Could that second matter? yes
But why the heck were you so situationally unaware that a second becomes a matter of such importance.

As to the original question by the O.P: Another vote just follow the four safety rules and you will never have a problem...

 

[WillametteWill]

Yep, and also try to remember to give that context when giving advice to less experienced people. I think that is the main sticking point in the most recent conversation here.

Sage advice. Many of my posts are not as much for the benefit of the OP as they are for others that may be lurking on a post.

 

[bradsteen]

Sage advice. Many of my posts are not as much for the benefit of the OP as they are for others that may be lurking on a post.

Same here

 

[Mikej]

Just an FYI to all. The OP has been handling firearms for probably longer than I have (since 2010). And isn't some dreamy-eyed kid. Nor is he one o' them " I support the 2nd Amendment BUT...." stupid idiots.

 

[orygun]

If fanny pack carry has a renaissance, I'll be first in line.

Enjoy!

I will admit to using mine some, but that's on a dirtbike, worn in back (it is a "fanny" pack, after all) and usually not with a firearm in it. It was a comfortable, easy way to tote a handgun. It was very convenient way to deal with it at work where I changed clothes. When I went to work, I would just drop it in my tool box.
But in the end I quit using it because it was a cluster fluck to get my gun in my hand safely, swiftly and surely, unlike using a holster
That's my opinion.
If "you" (anyone reading this) think I'm smokin crack, or something, that's cool. I've done things quite different than most all of my life.

But some of y'all need to take a chill pill and drop it after a post or two. Not very likely opinions will be changed in one thread.

 

[Spitpatch]

Don't make him turn this car around.

 

[Olderguy]

Carrying with an empty chamber is your best solution BUT you must be able to be able to rack the slide WITH YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER very quickly, so practice , practice , practice with an unloaded firearm. NOW we will hear from most everyone about what a bad idea this is. I have carried this way for years, as has my son, who is a retired LEO. We can rack the slide as we draw very proficiently. I have had only two occasions, where I had to rack under stress but worked well for me.