Overcharge or Out of Battery discharge?

[808hondacrguy]

Had a Kaboom today, and I was wondering what the experts say about this? Overcharge, or out of battery? 45 ACP 230 gr TMJ bullet 5.4 gr of Winchester 244. I am thinking maybe double charge, but I am very anal, and weigh every charge, then eyeball before seating. What do you think?

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[Certaindeaf]

You OK?
I'm thinking out of battery. It's pretty hard to double charge unless you're an absolute dunce but it's possible.

 

[Saladfarmer]

Over charges you will know. The boom is fantastic. OoB's usually just pop, depending on caliber, but my experience with pistol caliber OoB's is a popping sound and usually, depending on how much out of battery determines how much case is left if nothing more than the base of the case.
My vote is OoB.

 

[TTSX]

That looks like a flattened and pierced primer. Only time I've seen that was when I shot a rifle round that was waaay too hot. Mistakes can happen, even to the most careful loaders

 

[Alexx1401]

I was thinking the same thing looking at the primer. Looks like way too heavy a charge. How did it sound when it went off? If it was a heavy charge should have sounded quite different. I have had 9mm rifle blow out with factory on an OOB discharge. It blew the case like that but I don't remember it doing that to the primer. Not to mention is sounded really off, not nearly loud enough. To the point I stopped to check and make sure the slug even made it out of the bore.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That looks like a flattened and pierced primer. Only time I've seen that was when I shot a rifle round that was waaay too hot. Mistakes can happen, even to the most careful loaders

The primer isn't flattened at all.
It got pierced because there was nothing there to support it at the time of ignition.. it was then reseated to normal depth by rearward giggity pressure.

 

[po18guy]

Pierced, blackened and cratered primer. Slightly flattened with some protrusion into the flash hole of the slide. Too hot. Examine the primer beside the other rounds from the same bunch. The primer tells the story.

 

[Saladfarmer]

Yeah, not being a witness to the occasion. I'll postulate, the physics of the case giving out, you have a situation where the bullet begins to act as an obstruction. and the lack of pressure from the slide not being in full battery the charge pressure will start going to the weakest points.. which would be the unsupported parts of the case and the primer indentation.
Seeing how hot USPSA Open class major power factor 9mm race gun shooters load their rounds, a 124 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 1700 fps is pretty hot and they dont pop primers, and they use regular sp primers.
If it did sound different like I said before.. closer to boom, over charge, pop OoB

 

[Saladfarmer]

The primer isn't flattened at all.
It got pierced because there was nothing there to support it at the time of ignition.. it was then reseated to normal depth by rearward giggity pressure.

thats exactly what I ws writing, but you beat me to it. dang

 

[Yarome]

Can't exactly see all sides of the casing, but from what I can see, there doesn't appear to be much any other case deformation other than the blowout section (which you would be more indicative of OoB). Considering the primer, too... I'm going to say an overcharge.

If it was OoB it's typical to see more case bulging around the majority of the case... since it was unsupported as well... although that's not "always" the case if there was a weaker point that exhausted before additional bulging could occur.

I think you're in a much better position to say exactly what it was. If it was an overcharge, you would definitely know it by the sound and recoil. If it just sounded "off" but didn't feel incredibly different.... likely an OoB.... goes the theory.

 

[TTSX]

The primer isn't flattened at all.
It got pierced because there was nothing there to support it at the time of ignition.. it was then reseated to normal depth by rearward giggity pressure.

Looks flatter than normal to me. Just stating my observations

 

[808hondacrguy]

Yeah, I am leaning toward overcharge, It was LOUD, and blew the glasses right off my face, sent the magazine baseplate through my shoe into my foot. The case is not bulged anywhere, just one side is blown out, and the primer actually has a hole all the way through it. I don't remember much but a loud bang, big flash, and my hand felt numb for awhile. We never found the magazine body, just the baseplate stuck in my foot and a mangled spring. Thanks for the answers and opinions. Guy

 

[TTSX]

Yeah, I am leaning toward overcharge, It was LOUD, and blew the glasses right off my face, sent the magazine baseplate through my shoe into my foot. The case is not bulged anywhere, just one side is blown out, and the primer actually has a hole all the way through it. I don't remember much but a loud bang, big flash, and my hand felt numb for awhile. We never found the magazine body, just the baseplate stuck in my foot and a mangled spring. Thanks for the answers and opinions. Guy

You don't sound nearly excited enough about a base plate stuck in your foot. I'd have been jumping around like Yosemite Sam

 

[808hondacrguy]

You don't sound nearly excited enough about a base plate stuck in your foot. I'd have been jumping around like Yosemite Sam

To be honest, I didnt even notice it till my friend pointed out all the blood, didnt even feel it then, but now it hurts like a mutha lol

 

[Yarome]

You don't sound nearly excited enough about a base plate stuck in your foot. I'd have been jumping around like Yosemite Sam

Dancing around like a lil'girl... that's one way to get a corner torn off your man card.....

 

[Certaindeaf]

Looks flatter than normal to me. Just stating my observations

Have you ever seen a grossly flattened primer due to overpressure?

 

[Saladfarmer]

You don't sound nearly excited enough about a base plate stuck in your foot. I'd have been jumping around like Yosemite Sam

DOOOOHHHHH! BLASTED! DASTED! SUMADAH!... I can just picture that image
nice one.
On a serious note. that last bit of information would have been really helpful up front. Blowing the magazine out is ALWAYs an over charged round.
Been there. With a rifle though. Thank the LORD I didn't get more blown uppy. I didn't have gloves on. I also learned a valuable lesson
that day. Know your wildcat or in my case wolverine.

 

[TTSX]

Have you ever seen a grossly flattened primer due to overpressure?

Yes. And pierced primers. The whole lot. You disagree with me and that's fine

 

[Yarome]

There can be variations with handloads that make it pretty difficult to make assumptions. IE., Unknown is the pre-fire primer condition/seating, etc.

The casing, post-fire primer condition and simply having a mag ejection can all occur under either condition (overcharge or OoB). Maybe not entirely "typical", but doesn't definitively rule either condition out... beyond... "I would guess an overcharge".

The only facts that really determine what happened was the numb hand, the LOUD bang and the rapid disassembly of the mag itself.. with enough force to mangle spring steel and put a disassembled floor plate through the guys shoe. That simply doesn't happen with an OoB. Like @Saladfarmer said... that would have been the most pertinent and helpful info in the OP.

Sure glad he got away fairly unscathed. That could have gone VERY much worse! Must'a done something good in his life, but should be careful for awhile. He just wrote a massive check against his Karma deposits.

 

[oremike]

Over pressure is over pressure, but what caused it? You might check for a barrel obstruction. If you've got a bulged barrel but no obstruction the ka-boom might have cleared it. Elsewise you might want to pull the bullets on that batch for a look see.