If Greece Fails

[Gunner3456]

There is a big difference between requiring reporting and required method of payment..... at least to me there is.

I have to agree with that.

I wonder how much the fact that if you do it via electronic means that someone gets a transaction fee, which does not exist for cash transactions.

I don't know. We pay almost all of our bills online, and our bank doesn't charge for that. We also don't have an ATM fee. ?? We actually get a 3% cash rebate when we use the AMEX credit card, and awards when we use the MasterCard at places that don't take AMEX. We pay our CC balances in full each month, so we never pay any interest.

Our banking, so far, is totally free and we make money using the CC's as opposed to paying cash or writing a check.

 

[Grunwald]

Gunner, so do I. No balance carried on my credit card and I get reward points. We are however in the US and so this is our culture. I wonder how the Italians functions.
Although upon further reflection I think the proposed law has more with tracking money than fees.

 

[Gunner3456]

News I've heard yesterday on Bloomberg radio Europe - the new Italian prime minister want a law that forces any transaction over 1,000 Euros to be done electronically.
In other words, no cash transactions over 1,000 Euros. The stated goal is to allow the government to capture taxes and prevent cheating.

For those of you who do not know the new Italian prime minister is an appointed technocrat that comes from the banking sector. He was not elected by the people.

Gunner, so do I. No balance carried on my credit card and I get reward points. We are however in the US and so this is our culture. I wonder how the Italians functions.
Although upon further reflection I think the proposed law has more with tracking money than fees.

OK, I think I figured it out. Europe has 17 countries using the euro, but they do a lot of transactions with our dollar.

Are you sure it was only euros and not also dollars? They can't, for instance, buy oil from every country with euros. The dollar is the world's currency.

Also, Italy can't print Euros the way we can print dollars because they gave up their currency sovereignty when they joined the euro nations. (Not the euro zone which includes more countries, some of which don't use the euro. That's a marketing/trading zone.)

That big rescue last week with our Fed involved had everything to do with getting their banks more dollars. We simply traded their banks (our Fed did) dollars for euros and now the Fed is holding a ton of euros. That should work out OK for us unless the euro crashes and then we are screwed. It was actually one of the few smart things the Fed has done lately. It gave the European banks the liquidity in dollars they needed without us just giving it to them by participating in an IMF bailout.

European banks are on the brink right now and I say the new rule stops an effective run on banks in Italy which is in bad shape. Checks and credit cards are paper, but actual cash is what can put a bank under and everyone is nervous about the liquidity of European banks. Italy is short of cash.

 

[knuckle Head]

All they are doing is pushing out the enivitable, no person, business or country can continue spend more than they have coming in indefinitely.

<broken link removed>

Fed may give loans to IMF to help euro zone: paper | Reuters

US VP Biden jokes in Greece about bringing much aid

Why China

S&P warns eurozone of mass downgrade - FT.com

Lets see we are $15 trillion in debt U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time and we going to pump money into the Euro, which out values the doolar(on the books anyways)

China is actually worse off than we are by debt vs national output and they hold most of debt, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

sounds like a big ponzi scheme to me, but hey lets just have another beer :drink::drink: and ignore it, it will go away that way.

 

[Burt Gummer]

You want to start yet another Central Bank in the US to control the US through its money supply. The year is 1912.
The problem is that three of the wealthiest families are against the formation of another parasitic Central Bank and are very vocal about it.
You build a huge ship.
You invite these three families aboard.
You sink the ship killing those that are opposed to the formation of the Fed.
You then start your Federal Reserve private central bank one year later via crooked politicians who are left at the Capitol Bldg late night Xmas Eve.
One year later, 1914, you finance opposing nations in WWI and make huge fortunes. You'll repeat that act with other wars.
Your name is J.P. Morgan. You commemorative your deed by having your monetary slaves pay their tax on April 15th, the day of the sinking.
Only one President later stood in your way and repealed the Federal Reserve Act. You and your buddies kill him for it. Within 45 minutes of JFKs death your first in a long line of puppets, LBJ, restores the Fed.
Every President since JFK has been nothing more than a banker puppet.
Just a theory.

 

[Gunner3456]

All they are doing is pushing out the enivitable, no person, business or country can continue spend more than they have coming in indefinitely.

<broken link removed>

Fed may give loans to IMF to help euro zone: paper | Reuters

US VP Biden jokes in Greece about bringing much aid

Why China

S&P warns eurozone of mass downgrade - FT.com

Lets see we are $15 trillion in debt U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time and we going to pump money into the Euro, which out values the doolar(on the books anyways)

China is actually worse off than we are by debt vs national output and they hold most of debt, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

sounds like a big ponzi scheme to me, but hey lets just have another beer :drink::drink: and ignore it, it will go away that way.

You're right. We're just buying time until the inevitable. One thing. We aren't $15 tril in debt. We are $115 tril in debt when you count the unfunded liablitlies for SS and medicare, whose trust funds have been "borrowed" and spent as part of the general budget. There's no money there even though we've paid into it all our lives and "we" owe it. Baby boomers are starting to retire in massive numbers leaving much smaller generations to fund it from smaller incomes.

$115 tril works out to about $350,000 for every citizen in the US, even those too young or old to work and pay taxes.

That means that a family of four owes about $1.4 million dollars of the debt.

Every baby born in the US today is already $350,000 in debt and the amount is growing.

 

[knuckle Head]

Check out this short video clip from Greece <broken link removed>

 

[knuckle Head]

One video for those of you who like video's I recommend everyone watches this and email it to any and email it to any and everyone you know

<broken link removed>

 

[A.I.P.]

You want to start yet another Central Bank in the US to control the US through its money supply. The year is 1912.
The problem is that three of the wealthiest families are against the formation of another parasitic Central Bank and are very vocal about it.
You build a huge ship.
You invite these three families aboard.
You sink the ship killing those that are opposed to the formation of the Fed.
You then start your Federal Reserve private central bank one year later via crooked politicians who are left at the Capitol Bldg late night Xmas Eve.
One year later, 1914, you finance opposing nations in WWI and make huge fortunes. You'll repeat that act with other wars.
Your name is J.P. Morgan. You commemorative your deed by having your monetary slaves pay their tax on April 15th, the day of the sinking.
Only one President later stood in your way and repealed the Federal Reserve Act. You and your buddies kill him for it. Within 45 minutes of JFKs death your first in a long line of puppets, LBJ, restores the Fed.
Every President since JFK has been nothing more than a banker puppet.
Just a theory.

I'd really like to see the atribution on that!

 

[Siglvr]

I'd really like to see the atribution on that!

I had heard that very claim from a buddy not all that long ago. I did some research. True or not, a couple of links from the internet:
The warm up:
The truth about the sinking of the Titanic - Telegraph

The fullMonty:
<broken link removed>

A great read on how Senator Aldrich (the aforementioned "Aldrich bill") and John D Rockerfeller were connected by JDR's money- Titan, by Ron Chernow. http://www.amazon.com/Titan-Life-John-Rockefeller-Sr/dp/1400077303/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323228429&sr=1-1The best biography I've ever read. Was a national bestseller and a National Book Critics Circle Award finalist..

 

[kenno]

in March of 2011 I posted a thread titled If Egypt Falls that mysteriously disappeared a few hours later, in fact 2 of my threads on the comming re-organization of the globe disappeared in the same week
Fortunately this one is alive and well
Greece is in Stage 1 Civil War
France has had it's credit rating reduced so it is now a member of PIIGS (F) soon to be known as FIIGS
The Scandinavian Nations are on the verge of colapase and will either fall to the Stealth Jihad or into a 3-way civil war between the International Communists/Jihadies on one side and the National Socialists on the other
England will decend into chaos, under the Soros funded Occupy Movement
Only Germany remains solvent.
The Jihad has gone GLOBAL, I expect to see Venezuala and Mexico to fall in a few years, if not sooner.
Finance:
Greek Lawmakers Approve Austerity Measures as Riots Spread

(AP) Greek lawmakers on Monday approved harsh new austerity measures demanded by bailout creditors to save the debt-crippled nation from bankruptcy, after rioters in central Athens torched buildings, looted shops and clashed with riot police.

The historic vote paves the way for Greece's European partners and the International Monetary Fund to release $170 billion (euro130 billion) in new rescue loans, without which Greece would default on its debt mountain next month and likely leave the eurozone &#8211; a scenario that would further roil global markets.

Sunday's clashes erupted after more than 100,000 protesters marched to the parliament to rally against the drastic cuts, which will ax one in five civil service jobs and slash the minimum wage by more than a fifth.

At least 10 buildings were on fire, including a movie theater, bank and cafeteria, and looters smashed dozens of shops in the worst riot damage in years. Dozens of police officers and at least 37 protesters were injured, 23 suspected rioters were arrested and a further 25 detained.

As the vote got under way early Monday, Prime Minister Lucas Papademos urged calm, pointing to the country's dire financial straits.



"Vandalism and destruction have no place in a democracy and will not be tolerated," Papademos told Parliament. "I call on the public to show calm. At these crucial times, we do not have the luxury of this type of protest. I think everyone is aware of how serious the situation is."


Since May 2010, Greece has survived on a $145 billion (euro110 billion) bailout from its European partners and the International Monetary Fund. When that proved insufficient, the new rescue package was approved. The deal, which has not yet been finalized, will be combined with a massive bond swap deal to write off half the country's privately held debt.

But for both deals to materialize, Greece has to persuade its deeply skeptical creditors that it has the will to implement spending cuts and public sector reforms that will end years of fiscal profligacy and tame gaping budget deficits.

As protests raged Sunday, demonstrators set bonfires in front of parliament and dozens of riot police formed lines to keep them from making a run on the building. Security forces fired dozens of tear gas volleys at rioters, who attacked them with firebombs and chunks of marble broken off the fronts of luxury hotels, banks and department stores.

Clouds of tear gas drifted across the square, and many in the crowd wore gas masks or had their faces covered, while others carried Greek flags and banners.

A three-story building was completely consumed by flames as firefighters struggled to douse the blaze. Streets were strewn with stones, smashed glass and burnt wreckage, while terrified passers-by sought refuge in hotel lounges and cafeterias.

"I've had it! I can't take it any more. There's no point in living in this country any more," said a distraught shop owner walking through his smashed and looted optician store.



Athens Mayor Giorgos Kaminis said rioters tried to storm the City Hall building, but were repelled. "Once again, the city is being used as a lever to try to destabilize the country," he said.

Conservative New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras said the rioting "hurts the entire country."

"We are seeing scenes from a future that we must do our utmost to avert," he said.

Papademos' government &#8211; an unlikely coalition of the majority Socialists and their main foes, New Democracy &#8211; had been expected to carry the austerity vote, even if by a narrow margin.

Combined, they control 236 of Parliament's 300 seats, although at least 20 lawmakers from both main parties said they would not back the private sector wage cuts, pension reductions and civil service layoffs dictated by the draft austerity program.

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said the measures were vital to the country's very economic survival.

"The question is not whether some salaries and pensions will be curtailed, but whether we will be able to pay even these reduced wages and pensions," he said. "When you have to choose between bad and worse, you will pick what is bad to avoid what is worse."

The new cutbacks, which follow two years of harsh income losses and tax hikes amid a deep recession and record high unemployment have been demanded by Greece's bailout creditors in return for a new batch of vital rescue loans.

"By Wednesday, finance ministers from eurozone countries must finally approve the financing and support program for Greece," Venizelos said. "If that doesn't happen, the country will go bankrupt."

Greece's eurozone partners, meanwhile, kept up the pressure for real reform.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble was quoted as telling the Welt am Sonntag newspaper Sunday that Greece "cannot be a bottomless pit."

Highlighting previous promises he said weren't kept, Schaeuble said "that is why Greece&#8216;s promises aren't enough for us any more."

Asked whether Greece has a long-term future in the eurozone, Germany's Vice Chancellor Philip Roesler said "that is now in the hands of the Greeks alone."

"It is not enough just to give financial aid &#8211; they must tackle the second cause of the crisis, the lack of economic competitiveness," told said ARD television. "For that, they need ... massive structural reforms. Otherwise Greece will not get out of the crisis."

Introducing the legislation Sunday, Socialist lawmaker Sofia Yiannaka said the intense pressure from Greece's EU partners to pass the measures was the result of delays in implementing already agreed reforms.

"The delays have our imprint. We should not blame foreigners for them," she said. "We have finally found out that you have to pay back what you have borrowed."

Leftist parties and the small rightist LAOS &#8211; a former junior coalition partner &#8211; had vowed to vote against the new austerity.

"You are not trying to save Greece, but a handful of industrialists," Communist Party spokesman Thanassis Pafilis said. "And you disgracefully blame the struggling people who created the wealth we have. You are trying to send them back to the Middle Ages. We will not allow

 

[ATCclears]

Here is an "on the ground" article from someone in Greece. It is starting to sound like it is headed in the same direction as Argentina.

I have a plethora of airline-mileage points and we were considering a trip to Greece, but I told my wife it will be Hawaii or elsewhere now...

Peter

The age of austerity looms large over the Greek people. But what impact is it having on its citizens? Yahoo! News reports - Yahoo!

 

[Burt Gummer]

For at least 40 years we've had that requirement that any cash transaction of $10k or more must be reported to the IRS. That's true at the bank or if you buy PM's...

It wouldn't take much for them to lower that to $1k here.

Not BUY PMs. They could care a less what you buy. They care about what you sell and that you can prove either no profit made (by saving receipts) or pay the bankster's fed tax on it. Like the mobster that comes around wanting his cut, no difference.

For instance, if you have an Ebay account and buy $200k in goods the IRS does not care. But if you sell more than $10k worth of goods in the whole year, they care.

As for the OP subject, the Greece riots will pale in comparison to the riots and collapse coming to the USA in the not too distant future.

 

[kenno]

As for the OP subject, the Greece riots will pale in comparison to the riots and collapse coming to the USA in the not too distant future.

When the oil to europe is shut off and the grid goes down and Germany is the lone refuge (obama will close immigration to whiteys) for 10's of millions, war will result
There are currently Middle Class Greeks eating out of garbage cans.
The suicide rate has increased 40% in Greece
if nothing else:
Buy food and good quality walking footwear now. You can live on Beans, Rice and fat buyou won't survive if your crippled with blisters.

 

[mjbskwim]

Well Greece deserves to fall now.The people are so stupid that they will burn their country down,making it so no one wants to help them.
And when the have it burned to the ground,they will try to immigrate to other countries.And they will be let in.
But why? Why help the Greek when the just destroyed their own home?

As for us having the same things go down here? I believe LA,NY,Jersy,Boston,what's left to burn in Detroit will burn.But I don't see every city doing this. Seattle and Portland will see some but nothing like Greece

 

[kenno]

"You are not trying to save Greece, but a handful of industrialists," Communist Party spokesman Thanassis Pafilis said. "And you disgracefully blame the struggling people who created the wealth we have. You are trying to send them back to the Middle Ages. We will not allow it"

Does this sound like Obobo, or Occupy? Oh, sorry no differance!

 

[Burt Gummer]

Well Greece deserves to fall now.The people are so stupid that they will burn their country down,making it so no one wants to help them.
And when the have it burned to the ground,they will try to immigrate to other countries.And they will be let in.
But why? Why help the Greek when the just destroyed their own home?

As for us having the same things go down here? I believe LA,NY,Jersy,Boston,what's left to burn in Detroit will burn.But I don't see every city doing this. Seattle and Portland will see some but nothing like Greece

With respect, I disagree. At some point, we will be Greece with Guns. As for "The people are so stupid that they will burn their country down,making it so no one wants to help them." - this statement describes the USA to a tee.

When the banksters decide to pull the plug on the US ponzi money printing and 0% interest scam, it is going to be hell as they cash in their chips. Americans don't understand that the USA is actually a British Colony/Corporation and we own nothing. Our owners will make that fact abundantly clear at some point. http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm

 

[mjbskwim]

I will not argue that about 95%(+-) of all this is true. Some maybe conspiracy and over hype,but I am sure the government ,as we know it is owned by corporations.

So why would the banksters pull the plug on this cash cow,called the USA? I mean everyone is in debt with everyone,why not just drop all the debt and start over?

All they have to do is let us keep printing money.Greece doesn't have much of any GNP,so letting them fall isn't a biggie.But we have a GNP and armies to take care of the banksters
Just don't see why they would actually let us drop.

 

[kenno]

What product does the US produce?

Normalcy Bias is not your friend

 

[kenno]

..Finance
U.K. MEP Gives Epic Warning on Greek Chaos: &#8216;You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet!'
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 10:49am by Jonathon M. Seidl
An outspoken member of the European Parliament has struck again with another viral speech, this time warning that the chaos in Greece is just the beginning.

Nigel Farage is the leader of the UK Independence Party and has been an outspoken opponent of bailouts and what's been going on in Greece. This week, he blasted his colleagues who have treated Greece like a puppet government, and he shunned the idea that Greece is a democracy. Instead, he believes the people&#8216;s rights have been taken away and they're future is being decided by foreigners intent on bailouts. Zero Hedge explains:

Outspoken and oracular MEP Nigel Farage bombards his fellow unelected officials with &#8216;you can't handle the truth&#8216; comments as he points out the total contradiction that is the European Parliament's (and &#8216;Puppet Papademos&#8216 view of how things are going in their democracy relative to the reality of a TROIKA-ordered coup forced on the man in the street.

"Puppet Papademos is in place and as Athens caught fire on Sunday night he rather took my breath away," Farage said, referring to Lucas Papademos, the current Greek prime minister. "He said, &#8216;Violence and destruction have no place in a democratic country.'"

"What democratic country?" he asked out loud. "He's not even a democratically elected prime minister. He's been appointed by you guys. Greece is not run through democracy now, it is run through a Troika. Three foreign officials that fly into Athens airport and tell the Greeks what they can and cannot do."


Papademos, a former European Central Bank vice-president, was appointed prime minister in November by the Greek president. That&#8216;s what is drawing Farage's ire, especially considering Papademos was charged with securing a eurozone bail out.

But he's not done there.
"These policies are driving Greece towards a revolution. They need to be set free. If they don't get the Drachma back you will be responsible for something truly, truly horrible."

Here's the entire fiery speech:
<broken link removed>


It seems the point of Farage's speech, however, was lost to some. The Huffington Post, for example, went with the angle that he was supporting protests in the streets and angry with the austerity measures. But a closer examination, and considering Farage's history, shows his comments were aimed at European politicians who turn to bailouts and have made a mockery of the democratic process in Greece.

Farage has been hailed as a prominent figure in Britain's conservative movement. He gained attention for asking fellow politicians "Just who the hell do you think you people are?" during a debate about bailing out European Union countries, and has been an outspoken opponent of the EU.

You can read our previous profile of him here, which includes videos of some of his earlier speeches.

Here's a transcript of his latest speech:

"Well Commissioner, you picked the right man. Puppet Papademos is in place and as Athens caught fire on Sunday night he rather took my breath away. He said, &#8216;Violence and destruction have no place in a democratic country.'

What democratic country?

He's not even a democratically elected prime minister. He's been appointed by you guys. Greece is not run through democracy now, it is run through a Troika. Three foreign officials that fly into Athens airport and tell the Greeks what they can and cannot do.

The violence and destruction that you saw on Sunday is being caused directly because people are having their democratic rights taken from them &#8211; What else can they do?

And I must say, if I was a Greek citizen I would've been out there, joining those protests on Sunday. I'd be out there trying to bring down this monstrosity that has been put upon those people.

And in his efforts, in the Puppet's efforts to get the MPs to vote for the bailout package, he warned them, that if they didn't do so there would be a dramatic decline in living standards.

Well, has he looked out the front door?

Has he seen the fact that 50 per cent of the young people are unemployed already. Has he seen the fact, that the economy, far from stalling has contracted for five years in a row, and is now accelerating on a downward death spiral &#8211; a contraction of 7 per cent per annum.

Greece is being driven into the ground, and I think, frankly, when it comes to chaos, you ain't seen nothing yet!

These policies are driving Greece towards a revolution. They need to be set free. If they don't get the Drachma back you will be responsible for something truly, truly horrible