How many fpe is needed to kill big game animals?

[osprey]

Yes! Energy is not the main component in death, it is bleeding. If their is sufficient fpe to penetrate into vital organs to let life fluid leak out, the animal will die. A bigger diameter bullet helps here whether from expansion or from starting out big. A bullet that already is large like .457 can use the energy it has to penetrate rather than slowing down with unneeded expansion. Helpful for fast recovery is complete pass through which I believe a .457 slug 250-300gr at 700-800 fps can easily acheive. I am leaning towards one of the heavier bullets with no hollow point, or at least a very shallow one. In fact if a heavier wide meplat design wins out on accuracy I may indeed aim for high shoulder as I believe that will result in the quickest kills if the bullet is up to the task.

 

[osprey]

Well my new fugly air powered critter gitter arrived yesterday. A quick clean of the barrel and I slapped a 1.5-6x Sightron scope on it. Charged it up to 3000 psi and took a few shots with some hardcast powder coated 300gr bullets. Velocity was lower than I expected, probably due to the hardcast not sufficiently obturating to the bore. I got an average of 725 fps for a fpe of 350 at the muzzle and 340 ish at the target 15yds away. The bullets plowed through a 4x4 with ease. With the donnyfl emperor moderator it is pretty quiet. I would say it was about 90-100 db. I am now roughly sighted in and I am hoping to do some bullet testing Friday at 50yds.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Well my new fugly air powered critter gitter arrived yesterday. A quick clean of the barrel and I slapped a 1.5-6x Sightron scope on it. Charged it up to 3000 psi and took a few shots with some hardcast powder coated 300gr bullets. Velocity was lower than I expected, probably due to the hardcast not sufficiently obturating to the bore. I got an average of 725 fps for a fpe of 350 at the muzzle and 340 ish at the target 15yds away. The bullets plowed through a 4x4 with ease. With the donnyfl emperor moderator it is pretty quiet. I would say it was about 90-100 db. I am now roughly sighted in and I am hoping to do some bullet testing Friday at 50yds.

View attachment 1836948

Sounds like an awesome rifle. Just fyi guessing at db levels is extremely tricky at best. A pop can opening is about 110 db, cycling the action on an ar style .22 is about 115 db, somewhat loud talking is about 80 db. So Imo better to say qualitative rather than quantitative terms such as very quiet, quiet, etc.

 

[Paolung]

I think I remember seeing this in another similar thread. May have already been posted here too, but I didn't look.

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That "black bears" section on the far right is puzzling. Maybe a mistake?

I mean, of course you can take black bear with those, but you can do the moose, grizzly/brown bear, etc. as well...

 

[osprey]

Lol, I will put my phone db app next to it next time. It is noticeably quieter than my big bore subsonic powder burners which are around 130db. Without the moderator I would say it is as loud as the suppressed powder burners.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Lol, I will put my phone db app next to it next time. It is noticeably quieter than my big bore subsonic powder burners which are around 130db.

FYI phone app and inexpensive db meters give totally meaningless numbers for gunshots. The shot peak is around 20 millionths of a second in duration and requires a meter with very high rise time. These meters are generally on the order of $5000 or so although you can find cheaper used.

 

[osprey]

For all the db sticklers out there, it is medium quiet with the moderator.
Oh, and btw you are right about the can opening. I just opened a beer and my phone app said 110db so I am in calibration!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For all the db sticklers out there, it is medium quiet with the moderator.

Which moderator...?
I certainly was not invited to go shooting....
Andy

 

[osprey]

Which moderator...?
I certainly was not invited to go shooting....
Andy

Ima just trying to use the new cool kid airgunner lingo. They call airgun suppressors moderators which is a pretty descriptive term. Andy, since we are almost neighbors we should go shoot sometime!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Ima just trying to use the new cool kid airgunner lingo. They call airgun suppressors moderators which is a pretty descriptive term. Andy, since we are almost neighbors we should go shoot sometime!

Meeting up and going shooting would be fun for sure.
Andy

 

[Capn Jack]

I may have missed it but,
most state hunting regulations that I have seen specify the minimum cartridge that can be used for hunting game anmals.

 

[Carcassman]

Craig Boddington has written a number of books on ballistics, bullet performance, and "the right gun for the game". I don't have my copy at hand but I recall that he set some personal standards of fpe for deer sized, elk sized, and dangerous (generally African) game. I think that he uses 1,000 fpe as a minimum for deer and higher for elk. You can then use the ballistics table to define maximum range for a particular load and target. He notes these are not absolutes but to him represent performance that results in quick kills on well-placed shots.

 

[Spitpatch]

I may have missed it but,
most state hunting regulations that I have seen specify the minimum cartridge that can be used for hunting game anmals.

These are arbitrary legal requirements seized upon by bureaucrats desperate for a "defined, prosecutable threshold" sourced from "experts" and given a life of their own through decades of repetition.

Energy CAN be a significant factor in killing power. Despite nearly religious beliefs in the performance of "Super Bullets", they still require a significant amount of energy to perform as designed, and can become "Wounding Wonders" if that threshold is not met. A fragile old "cup and core" bullet may actually kill better at reduced impact energy levels (long range).

A broadhead over an inch wide and razor sharp needs very little impact energy to drop a Whiletail just as fast as if they were hit with a .375.

 

[DeanMk]

I may have missed it but,
most state hunting regulations that I have seen specify the minimum cartridge that can be used for hunting game anmals.

Yep, they do (at least here). Just looked up the Washington State Game and Fish Regs. In the Big Game section, under the section titled "Modern Firearm Regulations", they state the following....

Rifles: Big game, except cougar, must be hunted with a minimum of .24 caliber (6mm) centerfire rifle. Cougar may be hunted with .22 caliber centerfire rifle. Rimfire rifles are not legal for big game.
Handguns: Big game, except cougar, may be hunted with handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4inches per manufacturer's specification, and fire a minimum .24 caliber centerfire cartridge. The minimum for cougar is a .22 caliber centerfire handgun. Rimfire handguns are not legal for big game. A modern handgun may be carried for personal protection. Modern handguns cannot be used to hunt big game except as described above.
Shotguns: Deer, bear, and cougar may be hunted with 20gauge or larger shotgun shooting slugs or size #1or larger (0.30 inches diameter or larger) buckshot. Other big game may be hunted with a 10 or 12gauge shotgun using slugs.

So yes, to my earlier statement (I know, you didn't ask) that Washington State no longer states a minimum energy requirement for big game hunting.

 

[osprey]

This shows the somewhat capricious nature of these rules as I see opportunity to field a weapon that is legal, but would be ill suited for taking a deer. This is especially true in the pistol section.

 

[Xaevian]

This shows the somewhat capricious nature of these rules as I see opportunity to field a weapon that is legal, but would be ill suited for taking a deer. This is especially true in the pistol section.

Well, the handgun section has to take into account pistols like the TC Contender.

In Montana, "There is no rifle or handgun caliber limitations or magazine/round capacity restrictions for the taking of game animals".

Shotguns are limited to 0, 00, and slugs though.

 

[orygun]

In Montana, "There is no rifle or handgun caliber limitations or magazine/round capacity restrictions for the taking of game animals".

Shotguns are limited to 0, 00, and slugs though.

Yeah. I heard of a guy using some weirdo cartridge, like a 44 necked down to 357, or something like that.

 

[Joe F]

Not sure what you mean by big game.... for Deer, and Elk.. the lowest rifle I'd use is a .270 Win.

Here is a guideline that I find helpful: https://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_rifles_game.htm

 

[bcp]

So, it looks like in WA I could hunt big game with a 25ACP rifle but not a 22-250 rifle.



Bruce

 

[Spitpatch]

So, it looks like in WA I could hunt big game with a 25ACP rifle but not a 22-250 rifle.



Bruce

Such obvious "holes" in trying to legislate killing power have been the butt of amusements for decades.