Where does 6.5 Creedmoor fall on this game chart?

[Andy54Hawken]

The only ballistic terms Ron Spomer talked about in that portion of the video were: drop, wind drift, and energy (at different distances). I could almost guarantee that any shooter/hunter shooting at various ranges at almost any time in history knows those concepts (although they may not use the same terms necessarily). They may well not quantify it at all because they know by experience therefore no need really.

Fe they may know to hold at certain place to hit their longer target and that their gun is powerful enough to get the job done.

He also used "Ballistic Coefficient" along with a few others...that I get lost in.
And he was also talking about a modern conical bullet ...not a round ball if I remember right....not something Boone , Crockett or Carson would use or know about.

My point about Boone , Crockett and Carson was....that they knew all that stuff Spomer was saying...
However...they wouldn't have used those terms...and I am sure that it would have been much easier for them to show you by shooting...
Than by telling.

They knew the load their rifle liked...they knew where to hold ( sight ) for short or long range...and they knew what worked and stuck to that......simple.
Andy

 

[ilikegunspdx]

He also used "Ballistic Coefficient" along with a few others...that I get lost in.
And he was also talking about a modern conical bullet ...not a round ball if I remember right....not something Boone , Crockett or Carson would use or know about.

My point about Boone , Crockett and Carson was....that they knew all that stuff Spomer was saying...
However...they wouldn't have used those terms...and I am sure that it would have been much easier for them to show you by shooting...
Than by telling.

They knew the load their rifle liked...they knew where to hold ( sight ) for short or long range...and they knew what worked and stuck to that......simple.
Andy

I hear you and I think we're saying the same thing. One time I walked some old mines with a successful old school prospector. Geologists talk about the formations where gold deposits can occur (in geology jargon) but that old guy can look at the rock, knew the formations and say, "see this quartz seam here? there's gonna be gold here." His terms were different and he knew by experience.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I hear you and I think we're saying the same thing. One time I walked some old mines with a successful old school prospector. Geologists talk about the formations where gold deposits can occur (in geology jargon) but that old guy can look at the rock, knew the formations and say, "see this quartz seam here? there's gonna be gold here." His terms were different and he knew by experience.

Yep...that's it exactly....

I used to drive the instructors crazy at Sniper School...couldn't explain how to set up the shot on paper very well ...
(Truthfully at all )
However...I could shoot very well and do it when and where it matter...along with being good at the field craft portion of the school...
So I passed the course.
Andy

 

[hazencroftmatt]

I think of it as a Gucci caliber, and would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. If you can't shoot a 308 due to the recoil then you're a puthy. Man up and shoot a Man's caliber.


Disclaimer: I do not, nor have I ever owned anything that has the Gucci name on it.

It's not Gucci. It's got better ballistics than 308 and is significantly better at long ranges but lower energy till you're out past 600yards when the 6.5 holds energy better. If you hunt open land I'd go with the 6.5 but up closer in woodland or scrub, you might be happier with the 308.

 

[JRuby]

I am guessing but I believe 90% of most hunting with a centerire rifle do not know these terms.
There are those that worry about these terms but most don't look any further than a reasonable group.

 

[osprey]

These charts people come out with are quite laughable and don't really account for all the variables. As far as the creedmoor goes I find all the hate and fandom humorous. Despite owning a 6.5 needmore, I laugh and actively participate in the bashing as it is what it is, funny, and I do have a sense of humor after all! Having killed moose, elk, deer, antelope with a bow, muzzleloader and rifles of many different chamberings, The capability of a weapon system has more to do with the hunter behind the weapon and knowing the limitations of both.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

These charts people come out with are quite laughable and don't really account for all the variables

Almost as if the chart is just really about what the people that made it sell

 

[osprey]

BTW this is my favorite Creed meme. Funny sheet to spring on new camp members who bring rifle in said chambering. It is a good way to find out if they can roll with our crew!

 

[whiskeybill]

Yes that is true...
I am thinking of deleting my comment...since my point either ain't expressed well...or no one gets it....
Andy

Keep that post up Andy. It epitomizes the "KISS" methodology. Keeping it simple. You KNOW your rifles and what they can do.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Keep that post up Andy. It epitomizes the "KISS" methodology. Keeping it simple. You KNOW your rifles and what they can do.

Will do....and thank you.
Andy

 

[Koda]

I stumbled upon this article today discussing the new modern calibers and whats been incorporated differently into their designs compared to older calibers.

In short:
"Cartridges that Embody Modern Cartridge Design

• Are optimized for aero-ballistically efficient, heavy-for-caliber, high BC bullets
• Use faster twist rates to stabilize those projectiles
• Propel those bullets at relatively moderate velocities
• Have cases with adequate neck length to support these projectiles
• Can seat these bullets to specified cartridge length without impinging on the powder column
• Employ minimal body taper
• Headspace off sharp shoulders
• Have snug throats with a standardized leade geometry"

Modern Cartridge Design: Why New Rifle Cartridges Are Superior to the Classics

Modern Cartridge Design has revolutionized how we build cartridges, leading to hunting and competition rounds that outperform the classics.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[DirectDrive]

• Propel those bullets at relatively moderate velocities - long barrel life

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I would suppose it would all depend on just what "outperform" means to you.

If.....
I were to shoot and kill an elk with my .54 Hawken rifle at say....100 yards....
And someone else shoots an elk and killed it with a .30-06 at 100 yards....does it matter...?
Dead is dead.

So....
Again...what does "outperform" mean...?
Use your rifle and cartridge to best of your hunting and shooting abilities....it will perform just fine for you.

I understand that there have firearm and cartridge advancements since my two examples.
I also am not against new developments in firearms or cartridges or their use.

I do however , dislike the notion that just 'cause something is new...
It is "better" than what has come before and has been proven to work.
Andy

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...

• Use faster twist rates to stabilize those projectiles

The 8.6 blackout has a crazy twist rate of 1:3. Seems to have a dual personality for subsonics vs supers. Check out the crazy penetration in this video (cued to the right spot) 50 yard shot through 3 gel blocks like they aren't even there (for this round, doesn't mean all supersonic rounds).

Edit: skip to 10:08 mark I don't know why but mine changes the startup time each view. weird.

Sound levels of 300BO and 8.6 black out side-by-side. 8.6 sounds like a .22 at the 6:45 mark. I can't get it to copy at the proper time for some reason.

 

[Koda]

The 8.6 blackout has a crazy twist rate of 1:3.

Im just barely beginning to wrap my head around twist rates but never heard or imagined a 1:3... dang. Is there a limit at some point?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I would suppose it would all depend on just what "outperform" means to you.

If.....
I were to shoot and kill an elk with my .54 Hawken rifle at say....100 yards....
And someone else shoots an elk and killed it with a .30-06 at 100 yards....does it matter...?
Dead is dead.

So....
Again...what does "outperform" mean...?
Use your rifle and cartridge to best of your hunting and shooting abilities....it will perform just fine for you.

I understand that there have firearm and cartridge advancements since my two examples.
I also am not against new developments in firearms or cartridges or their use.

I do however , dislike the notion that just 'cause something is new...
It is "better" than what has come before and has been proven to work.
Andy

It's always bothered me that people refer to guns as obsolete. (Unless it is a metallic case cartridge that cannot be fired) A sharp pointy stick or rock will kill, as will your relatively modern Hawken. (On the continuum from sharp pointy stick to now, it is not that many steps back) If it kills, it ain't obsolete.

I do have my weapons preference and they are tailored to me.
If we were to gauge lethality, I am probably more lethal with a Thompson Encore than any of my relatively higher tech weapons.

 

[solv3nt]

It's always bothered me that people refer to guns as obsolete. (Unless it is a metallic case cartridge that cannot be fired) A sharp pointy stick or rock will kill, as will your relatively modern Hawken. (On the continuum from sharp pointy stick to now, it is not that many steps back) If it kills, it ain't obsolete.

I do have my weapons preference and they are tailored to me.
If we were to gauge lethality, I am probably more lethal with a Thompson Encore than any of my relatively higher tech weapons.

^This. My 30-35# English Longbow definitely has enough power to kill a human.

 

[DirectDrive]

Another way to look at it...
6.5 Swedish was born approximately 1893
Fair to say that we've learned a few things since 1893

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

This size projectile seems to be having ongoing innovations.
If I were considering buying a rifle with characteristics similar to a 6.5 CM, I would also review a 6.5 PRC. It has approximately 30% more space in the cartridge for additional powder, resulting in an even flatter shooting projectile with higher velocity than the Creedmoor.
The trade-off being more recoil.
I believe that Weatherby has also recently introduced a 6.5 variant.

Barrel life on The 6.5 PRC is a lil on the short side when you hot rod you have to pay the price 1-2k rounds you lost my interest !

 

[solv3nt]

Barrel life on The 6.5 PRC is a lil on the short side when you hot rod you have to pay the price 1-2k rounds you lost my interest !

Oh man, I've got a 300 PRC in the works.