How many fpe is needed to kill big game animals?

[ilikegunspdx]

I heard that to be safe you should only use the rounds circled in red to hunt anything. Mice, squirrels, whatever.

 

[thorborg]

I know of a Winchester, during the 60's, a model 275 pump with a Westernfield 3-7X20 scope in 22 mag that has taken more deer than I have, some up to a hundred yards, mostly head shots.
While I don't advocate the caliber, definitely not the poaching, it does illustrate "placements" roll in hunting.

 

[osprey]

So are you asking about minimum fpe because you would like to hunt deer with an air rifle?

I am going to kill a deer with a pellet gun and I was just kind of expanding on the topic of how bullets kill. Based on some of the comments in the hunting with a .357mag lever gun thread, I feel many still feel you have to have x number fpe. Hell just look at the ending statement of the post before you. I don't think you can put a definitive # on required fpe needed. I just know it is well under 1000 for deer.

 

[osprey]

1) .357 Magnum lever gun, assuming good shot placement and proper load/bullet choice, is fine at that range, under good conditions.

2) If you have a projectile with 5000 foot pounds of energy, but it slips right through your target and doesn't dump but 1% of that energy in the target, 99% of that huge number of foot pounds of energy is wasted (you only dumped 50 ft pounds). So, "energy" is but one component, of which there are many, of what's going on. Velocity, penetration, expansion, shot placement, ballistic coefficient, sectional density, what you're actually shooting (deer, bear, etc.) all matter in the big picture. There are probably some I forgot to mention as well.

All that said, there seems to be a common understanding that around 1000 foot pounds is a good generalized number for what it takes, assuming all the other factors are in place.

I guess I do not have that common understanding. The old 1500 fpe for elk and 1000 fpe for deer are made up numbers by some gun writer that didn't know any better.

 

[Paolung]

I guess I do not have that common understanding. The old 1500 fpe for elk and 1000 fpe for deer are made up numbers by some gun writer that didn't know any better.

Hell just look at the ending statement of the post before you.

Don't mistake my saying there's a common understanding out there for my endorsement of it.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I am going to kill a deer with a pellet gun and I was just kind of expanding on the topic of how bullets kill. Based on some of the comments in the hunting with a .357mag lever gun thread, I feel many still feel you have to have x number fpe. Hell just look at the ending statement of the post before you.

Tbh depends on the hunter and the range also. Fe 30 yards like you mentioned much easier to get a perfect shot. I remember in one airgun forum they said you can't use less than 15 fpe to kill a fox squirrel. I posted a picture of a fox squirrel I literally killed 5 min before with a 5 fpe .177 airgun. Then was silent on that thread ha ha. Shot him in the ear hole. That particular gun was insanely accurate, you could shoot through a tiny spot between the branches and hit a squirrel under the chin, lights out!

 

[Koda]

I guess I do not have that common understanding. The old 1500 fpe for elk and 1000 fpe for deer are made up numbers by some gun writer that didn't know any better.

My understanding is those numbers were established by fish and game departments, the gun writers just use them for convenience and something to write about..

 

[Koda]

I am going to kill a deer with a pellet gun and I was just kind of expanding on the topic of how bullets kill. Based on some of the comments in the hunting with a .357mag lever gun thread, I feel many still feel you have to have x number fpe. Hell just look at the ending statement of the post before you. I don't think you can put a definitive # on required fpe needed. I just know it is well under 1000 for deer.

What fpe energy do you get with your pellet gun with those pellets?

 

[osprey]

What fpe energy do you get with your pellet gun with those pellets?

Probably 375 to 410. I will have exact figures in the near future.

 

[Koda]

Probably 375 to 410. I will have exact figures in the near future.

What do you think of Airgundepots energy chart for game? Says 200fpe and Im guessing they mean at the deer not the muzzle?

Also, same page says its illegal for deer in Washington.

Airgun Hunting Guide | Airgun Depot

Check out this detailed guide & review of Airgun Hunting from the leading airgun experts, Airgun Depot.

www.airgundepot.com

 

[osprey]

What do you think of Airgundepots energy chart for game? Says 200fpe and Im guessing they mean at the deer not the muzzle?

Also, same page says its illegal for deer in Washington.

Airgun Hunting Guide | Airgun Depot

Check out this detailed guide & review of Airgun Hunting from the leading airgun experts, Airgun Depot.

www.airgundepot.com

Yep, that is where the Idaho tag I hold for next fall comes into play.

 

[Koda]

Yep, that is where the Idaho tag I hold for next fall comes into play.

Tell us more about your air rifle, pellet, range, fps and fpe?

 

[osprey]

Again that chart is just a guide line but probably has some merit. Yes I believe they are talking about fpe at the animal. I have purchased a Benjamin bulldog in .457 that was supposed to arrive yesterday but now probably Monday. I plan on shooting a slug/bullet in the 240-350gr range. Speeds should be 750- 830 fps. I will test for accuracy with all the bullets first and pick a couple that perform the best and do some realistic terminal ballistic testing to pick a winner. I know the gun is pretty funky looking but I feel it provides the most bang for the buck. I was not ready to drop $1500-2500 on a big boy air rifle. A rattle can makeover will be done to soften those horrendous lines. As one reviewer said " the gun performs great and you can't see it while you are shooting it"

BULLDOG .457

PCP Powered, Multi-Shot Bolt Action Hunting Air Rifle

www.benjaminairguns.com

 

[BigGame]

My understanding is those numbers were established by fish and game departments, the gun writers just use them for convenience and something to write about..

I thought these FPE rules of thumb had their origins with Townsend Whelen (Colonel Whelen) and dated from the 1930s or 1940s. The US Fish & Wildlife service was just forming in the 1940s and more into the 1950s.

It's worth noting that in the 1930s-1940s the operative hunting bullet was an unbonded, soft-point, lead-core projectile. What was necessary for that bullet is worlds different from the projectiles we have today.

 

[Koda]

I thought these FPE rules of thumb had their origins with Townsend Whelen (Colonel Whelen) and dated from the 1930s or 1940s. The US Fish & Wildlife service was just forming in the 1940s and more into the 1950s.

It's worth noting that in the 1930s-1940s the operative hunting bullet was an unbonded, soft-point, lead-core projectile. What was necessary for that bullet is worlds different from the projectiles we have today.

So basically FPE rules are outdated.


"Only accurate rifles are interesting". - Townsend Whelen

 

[osprey]

I thought these FPE rules of thumb had their origins with Townsend Whelen (Colonel Whelen) and dated from the 1930s or 1940s. The US Fish & Wildlife service was just forming in the 1940s and more into the 1950s.

It's worth noting that in the 1930s-1940s the operative hunting bullet was an unbonded, soft-point, lead-core projectile. What was necessary for that bullet is worlds different from the projectiles we have today.

I am not sure of the origin but you may be right. Funny you mention the bullets you believe the fpe guide line was modeled around because those types of projectiles are just like what I am fixin to use. I Guess we will find out who's right, Townsend or me.

 

[Koda]

I am not sure of the origin but you may be right. Funny you mention the bullets you believe the fpe guide line was modeled around because those types of projectiles are just like what I am fixin to use. I Guess we will find out who's right, Townsend or me.

Do airgun hunting pellets have copper jackets and are they designed to expand?
All I can say is be careful you dont actually find out how much fpe is needed. Maybe do a Paul Harrel style "meat target" to test.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I'm pretty sure that Boone , Crockett and Carson...didn't know how many FPE it took to kill game.
However....
They did know how their rifles shot...and how to hunt.
Which seems a mite more important to me at least...than numbers on a chart.
Andy

 

[osprey]

Do airgun hunting pellets have copper jackets and are they designed to expand?
All I can say is be careful you dont actually find out how much fpe is needed. Maybe do a Paul Harrel style "meat target" to test.

I am pretty sure at this point you skim my posts and don't actually read them.

 

[Koda]

I am pretty sure at this point you skim my posts and don't actually read them.

We were talking about unbonded lead core soft points from the 1940s above. I saw your post showing all lead pellets. Im pretty sure you didnt read the last question I asked, if they make copper jacketed pellets? Just having a conversation here, no need to be condescending.