"Ghost" Guns outlawed in Oregon?

[Koda]

@jbett98 you might want to read what the law says about selling those in Oregon before you post that publicly. Id suggest using the edit button...

 

[CamoDeafie]

@jbett98 you might want to read what the law says about selling those in Oregon before you post that publicly. Id suggest using the edit button...

He might be able to sell out of state?

 

[PiratePast40]

He might be able to sell out of state?

You can do what you want until September 2024. You can buy, sell, trade and possess anything not prohibited by federal law.

I posted a link to the enrolled version of HB2005. Yes, it's a mess but your answers are in there. Go through definitions first and then find the section about whichever type of firearm you're concerned about.

 

[arakboss]

I haven't been following the ghost gun laws very carefully.
Lets say that you bought four 80% Ar-15 lowers and the milling jig many years ago and built just one.
You still have three lowers in the original 80% configuration.
The one that's been finished, is it grandfathered in with no serial numbers, or do you have to have that serialized?

No grandfather clause.

 

[arakboss]

You can do what you want until September 2024. You can buy, sell, trade and possess anything not prohibited by federal law.

I posted a link to the enrolled version of HB2005. Yes, it's a mess but your answers are in there. Go through definitions first and then find the section about whichever type of firearm you're concerned about.

This is not accurate. The possession portion is not an offense until Sept 2024. Sales, transfers etc are already prohibited.

 

[arakboss]

The way I understand it is its not grandfathered in, and you have until this next Sept to get it serialized.


Does anyone know if the law also prohibits lowers still in their unfinished configuration?

Yes they will be prohibited even in unfinished condition.

 

[Koda]

Yes they will be prohibited even in unfinished condition.

So then those that have them might as well finish them.
The prohibition wont slow down the bad guys, they will just bring them in from other states. The only way this would slow down ghost guns in bad guys hands is if every state in the country outlawed them. But by then the bad guys will be printing them on their own anyways if they already arent. Ive always suspected Ghost guns would be a kingpin in the "only bad guys will have guns" argument.

 

[arakboss]

So then those that have them might as well finish them.
The prohibition wont slow down the bad guys, they will just bring them in from other states. The only way this would slow down ghost guns in bad guys hands is if every state in the country outlawed them. But by then the bad guys will be printing them on their own anyways if they already arent. Ive always suspected Ghost guns would be a kingpin in the "only bad guys will have guns" argument.

The crime will be the same so yes they might as well finish them.

 

[Yarome]

I'm not sure about that. I was under the impression that mere possession is a violation. See Section 4 (b)

4(b) states a "firearm". According to the alphabets new definition... a paperweight isn't a "firearm" until you put a scratch on it.. progressing it toward conversion to a "firearm".

IE., (The question posed) An 80% AR lower you owned prior to the law is a paperweight. If you so much as put a dimple on it where a drill or mill bit might go... it then becomes a "firearm" and a serial number is required.

It is illegal though to purchase a paperweight without a serial number in OR after the law went into affect. (Although I'm not 100% on that)

The crux. If you owned one prior to the law going into affect and do nothing with it in hopes that it would once again be legal to build your own, it's not illegal to possess a paperweight.

 

[Alexx1401]

The way I understand it is its not grandfathered in, and you have until this next Sept to get it serialized.


Does anyone know if the law also prohibits lowers still in their unfinished configuration?

My guess, probably. Again though no one is going to care if someone has some 80% that are still just a chunk. One way to tell for sure is will the people selling them still sell them in your state? Again though someone with some that are still just a chunk of metal or plastic? No one is going to care.

 

[Yarome]

Those things are damn cheap considering they already have the parts kit installed. Nice. At least those who made up a nice "ghost glock" can just buy one of those if they want to keep it legal.

That is certainly an option, but it's yet to tell if it makes economic sense to do that or not.

Those type are not inherently "plug and play" and require fitting. If you have a fully fettered and functional lower that will, ultimately, cost you less than $110 ($60 + $50 transfer/BGC) to serialize..... then it would make no sense to go that route and have to go through the fettering process again with no guarantee it fill function as well as the one you already own.

Especially considering that you may have already made alterations to critical components (typically the rails and/or locking block) that may not reliably "translate" into the new frame.

The more assured route would be to simply convert them over to OEM lowers, but that would come at a much higher cost... taking the question back to... does it make economical sense to do so or not.

 

[Alexx1401]

That is certainly an option, but it's yet to tell if it makes economic sense to do that or not.

Those type are not inherently "plug and play" and require fitting. If you have a fully fettered and functional lower that will, ultimately, cost you less than $110 ($60 + $50 transfer/BGC) to serialize..... then it would make no sense to go that route and have to go through the fettering process again with no guarantee it fill function as well as the one you already own.

Especially considering that you may have already made alterations to critical components (typically the rails and/or locking block) that may not reliably "translate" into the new frame.

The more assured route would be to simply convert them over to OEM lowers, but that would come at a much higher cost... taking the question back to... does it make economical sense to do so or not.

Never have put together a "ghost glock" I did not know the damn things did not work without a lot of work. Was always left with the impression that it was super simple, you drop the parts in slap on the slide and off to the races. Bummer. Guess those who bought a nice upper are left with buying an OEM lower then. That does suck. Also glad I never bothered to buy one of these things then. I was temped several times when they were selling them here just because the state was trying to say they did not like them. Damn "kit" was a lot more than a NIB Glock though. I would have been HIGHLY pissed off to buy one and find it did not even work. I did build a few AR "ghosts" and those were just as simple as putting together an AR from a stripped lower. No wonder those frame kits were so cheap when they were selling them here, had no idea they were junk.

 

[Yarome]

You can do what you want until September 2024. You can buy, sell, trade and possess anything not prohibited by federal law.

I'm a bit fuzzy on that one. I'm not sure you can buy, sell or trade within OR after the law was enacted or not.

My understanding was that just the "being in possession" portion was not an offense until Sept.... but my confidence isn't all that high if that's really the case or not.

IIRC it is a limited exemption qualified by particular subsections(?)

 

[Yarome]

Never have put together a "ghost glock" I did not know the damn things did not work without a lot of work. Was always left with the impression that it was super simple, you drop the parts in slap on the slide and off to the races. Bummer. Guess those who bought a nice upper are left with buying an OEM lower then. That does suck. Also glad I never bothered to buy one of these things then. I was temped several times when they were selling them here just because the state was trying to say they did not like them. Damn "kit" was a lot more than a NIB Glock though. I would have been HIGHLY pissed off to buy one and find it did not even work. I did build a few AR "ghosts" and those were just as simple as putting together an AR from a stripped lower. No wonder those frame kits were so cheap when they were selling them here, had no idea they were junk.

They aren't "junk", but they aren't exactly "plug and play" either. I think the distinction comes down to the difference between "largely functional" (most of the time) out of the box and "reliably functional" and accurate.

The parts themselves don't have the same tolerances as say... a glock lower... so they can be kind of hit and miss, but much boils down to the builders capabilities.

I mean... if you're drilling a locking block and trigger pin hole with a hand drill, using a chessy plastic jig and cheapo drill bits they provide... it's inherently not going to produce the same precision as an OEM frame. Even slightly out of tolerance can mean the difference between a slide that cycles or get's hung up on the locking block and won't. KWIM?

I agree with you though that AR 80% are infinitely easier. Mainly due to the higher precision of quality jigs and non reliance of any MFG provided proprietary parts. Unlike polymer glock kits where the entire rail and locking block system is mfg supplied and proprietary.

Producing a highly reliable and accurate firearm from one is not all that difficult, but the whole, "bang it together in 30 min with an exacto knife" shtick is just BS propaganda.

 

[arakboss]

Can serial number plate be riveted to frame?

 

[Yarome]

You can do what you want until September 2024. You can buy, sell, trade and possess anything not prohibited by federal law.

You're correct. Going back and reviewing all the subsection qualifications in HB2004.... that's accurate.

Each of the possession, import, sale, trade restriction provisions have corresponding qualified exemption subsections.

Thanks!

 

[Alexx1401]

They aren't "junk", but they aren't exactly "plug and play" either. I think the distinction comes down to the difference between "largely functional" (most of the time) out of the box and "reliably functional" and accurate.

The parts themselves don't have the same tolerances as say... a glock lower... so they can be kind of hit and miss, but much boils down to the builders capabilities.

I mean... if you're drilling a locking block and trigger pin hole with a hand drill, using a chessy plastic jig and cheapo drill bits they provide... it's inherently not going to produce the same precision as an OEM frame. Even slightly out of tolerance can mean the difference between a slide that cycles or get's hung up on the locking block and won't. KWIM?

I agree with you though that AR 80% are infinitely easier. Mainly due to the higher precision of quality jigs and non reliance of any MFG provided proprietary parts. Unlike polymer glock kits where the entire rail and locking block system is mfg supplied and proprietary.

Producing a highly reliable and accurate firearm from one is not all that difficult, but the whole, "bang it together in 30 min with an exacto knife" shtick is just BS propaganda.

Makes me damn glad I never bought one then. If I had it would only have been because they were trying to say they did not want us to have them. The damn price was what a NIB Glock ran and a lot more. So it would have been a pisser and a half to put one together and have it not work. I never did like Glocks but the BIG thing they had going for them is they just work. Take one out of the box load it and it works. If I paid $600 for one in "kit" and it did not work? I would have been PISSED OFF

 

[Yarome]

If I paid $600 for one in "kit" and it did not work? I would have been PISSED OFF

I don't disagree, and if you go out and purchase components on the "scalpers market" (where folks are breaking down brand new glocks and parting them out for greater profits)... and don't really know what you're doing assembling a kit... that's not such an uncommon scenario.

Those who do a little research, have an idea what they are doing and have a little patience, that's hardly the case. IE., someone I know was recently showing me one he had done not long ago. He picked up a poly80 frame from the mfg on sale for 50 awhile back, bought a never fired brand new G19 complete slide with trij night sights off calguns for 175, scored an OEM lower parts kit with extended mag release, slide release and slide lock on sale at midway for 40 and an OEM trigger assembly for 12. All in... $277. It runs flawless.

Not that he really needed another handgun, but for him... he enjoys the projects, finding/making good deals and get's a kick out of putting together some really nice shooters at prices far below what he could get OTC. Of course, he's one of those too that is still holding a grudge over 941. I'm sure that plays a part.

I guess it boils more down to... if you spent $600 on a kit and it didn't work... that's more a failure on the builders part than the components fault.

 

[Idaho44]

The whole 'ghost gun' debate is a pathetic joke perpetrated on both sides. It takes a bit of skill, dexterity and patience to create one. There are more than a few finate tasks to complete a fully functional and issue free one. It's a 'warm fuzzy' thrown out to chum the waters!

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't disagree, and if you go out and purchase components on the "scalpers market" (where folks are breaking down brand new glocks and parting them out for greater profits)... and don't really know what you're doing assembling a kit... that's not such an uncommon scenario.

Those who do a little research, have an idea what they are doing and have a little patience, that's hardly the case. IE., someone I know was recently showing me one he had done not long ago. He picked up a poly80 frame from the mfg on sale for 50 awhile back, bought a never fired brand new G19 complete slide with trij night sights off calguns for 175, scored an OEM lower parts kit with extended mag release, slide release and slide lock on sale at midway for 40 and an OEM trigger assembly for 12. All in... $277. It runs flawless.

Not that he really needed another handgun, but for him... he enjoys the projects, finding/making good deals and get's a kick out of putting together some really nice shooters at prices far below what he could get OTC. Of course, he's one of those too that is still holding a grudge over 941. I'm sure that plays a part.

I guess it boils more down to... if you spent $600 on a kit and it didn't work... that's more a failure on the builders part than the components fault.

When I was looking at these things was a couple years ago and more. Before WA said no more. The parts were not OEM, the places selling the lowers as 80% also sold the upper's. Some of them looked real nice. The sticking point for me was by the time I bought it all it was FAR over what a new Glock ran. Had no idea price had dropped so much that these would actually be cheaper now, they sure as hell were not then. Strange that when these were legal to buy here they were 3 times the cost that they are now that so many places have said no to them
Maybe a LOT of parts they can't sell now since places are saying no to these now??
In any case if even the lowers this place is selling that are legal don't work I can't see any point in them. Like I said never been a Glock fan but the one thing they had going for them was you put ammo in them and the damn things worked. Had no idea the lowers that Polymer 80 is cranking out don't work like a Glock. The damn design is so simple I had just assumed they worked. Moot point now here is WA as they long ago told us no more. Just damn glad I did not waste money on one to find out its junk.