"Ghost" Guns outlawed in Oregon?

[arakboss]

That "trace" is for the ATF.

When (not if - WHEN) the state decides to confiscate, the OSP, not the ATF, will come knocking on the doors of the FFLs for those records.

Nevermind it will be easy to trace as the serial number will lead them to ADR Tactical. I thought I deleted that part about the trace before I posted that post, weird.

 

[The Heretic]

Nevermind it will be easy to trace as the serial number will lead them to ADR Tactical. I thought I deleted that part about the trace before I posted that post, weird.

Yeah - not so concerned about a "trace" as I am about de facto registration.

 

[arakboss]

That "trace" is for the ATF.

When (not if - WHEN) the state decides to confiscate, the OSP, not the ATF, will come knocking on the doors of the FFLs for those records.

If somebody is worried about the State going door to door and confiscating firearms, I am guessing they aren't worried about having a serial number applied to their firearms.

 

[Koda]

Options are a good thing though it defeats the whole reason for building one.
I can see someone who built one that actually carries or uses it but still defeats the purpose.

 

[arakboss]

Options are a good thing though it defeats the whole reason for building one.
I can see someone who built one that actually carries or uses it but still defeats the purpose.

Somebody who built one because they did not want to complete a background check might use this service.

If you built one because it was harder to trace then yes it defeats that purpose.

 

[Koda]

Somebody who built one because they did not want to complete a background check might use this service.

Are you talking about someone who just wants to skirt the BGC law or a prohibited person?

 

[arakboss]

Are you talking about someone who just wants to skirt the BGC law or a prohibited person?

I couldn't guess the person's motivation for not wanting to do a background check. What I can say is a background check was not required by law to purchase an 80% frame and it does not appear that it's required to get the frame serialized by ADR Tactical.

 

[Koda]

I couldn't guess the person's motivation for not wanting to do a background check. What I can say is a background check was not required by law to purchase an 80% frame and it does not appear that it's required to get the frame serialized by ADR Tactical.

Agree. Its very interesting to learn a BGC isnt required to serialize ( register) a gun.

 

[jbett98]

But, do you have to provide a drivers license or other type of ID to the engraver?

 

[PiratePast40]

In just the last couple of weeks, wasn't there just a high level judges decision that possession of an unserialized firearm was not against the law? Perhaps it was possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number.

 

[Alexx1401]

But, do you have to provide a drivers license or other type of ID to the engraver?

Far as I know so far no one is actually saying they are going to do this and how they are going to handle it. LOT of talk about what would need to be done but so far have not seen a link to anyone claiming they will do this and how it will work. Will be interesting to see if someone does, and how they will do it.

 

[CamoDeafie]

In just the last couple of weeks, wasn't there just a high level judges decision that possession of an unserialized firearm was not against the law? Perhaps it was possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number.

ATF and States not in the relevant districts tend to ignore Fed rulings in districts that their States are in it usually require either a Fed Judge in relevant Districts (9th Circuit for Oregon); or a SCOTUS level nationwide ruling.

 

[Yarome]

In just the last couple of weeks, wasn't there just a high level judges decision that possession of an unserialized firearm was not against the law? Perhaps it was possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number.

It was actually several months ago, but yeah. A federal judge ruled that being charged for illegal possession of a firearm with a defaced serial number is unconstitutional. On the grounds that there is no analogous founding law requiring firearms to be serialized. That ruling doesn't cover OR, but it certainly makes it easier for additional 2A challenges.

(Was there another such ruling more recently(?))

IE., Sept rolls around and standing is established.

 

[Yarome]

Serialization of 80% Lower Receivers Oregon - 80% Lowers and More

Serialization Service of 80% Lower Receivers for Oregon Residents who currently possess an 80 Percent Lower or Unserialized Receiver.

80lowers.com

A lot of questions and figured the best way to find out is to simply ask someone who is actually doing it. I sent an inquiry and will report back their response.

IE., If and how the serial # is recorded. Is ID required or personal info associated with the serial or simply the serial. If the "type" is associated, and in the case of a lower/frame only is it simply an "other". Is their a discounted price if they are physically taken into their shop or a quantity discount.

The prevailing theory seems to be that no name is required until transfer of ownership takes place. Much like a mfg is required to assign a serial number, but no individual is associated with the firearm until a 4473 record is made. That may just be wishful thinking, but... we'll see.

It seems common in other states that the cheapest services are routinely being offered at gun shows. There's a thought.

 

[The Heretic]

A lot of questions and figured the best way to find out is to simply ask someone who is actually doing it. I sent an inquiry and will report back their response.

IE., If and how the serial # is recorded. Is ID required or personal info associated with the serial or simply the serial. If the "type" is associated, and in the case of a lower/frame only is it simply an "other". Is their a discounted price if they are physically taken into their shop or a quantity discount.

The prevailing theory seems to be that no name is required until transfer of ownership takes place. Much like a mfg is required to assign a serial number, but no individual is associated with the firearm until a 4473 record is made. That may just be wishful thinking, but... we'll see.

It seems common in other states that the cheapest services are routinely being offered at gun shows. There's a thought.

If they record no info, then how does the gov know you had an FFL do the engraving??

 

[Koda]

If they record no info, then how does the gov know you had an FFL do the engraving??

FFLs are required to turn over their registries if asked or when they retire.

 

[arakboss]

If they record no info, then how does the gov know you had an FFL do the engraving??

Most likely these will be entered in their Gunsmithing A&D book. Unless the State or Feds ask to see that book there shouldn't be another source of notification to government.

Edit: By entering it in the gunsmithing A&D book that allows them to give it back to you without a background check being completed.

Ingenious IMHO.

 

[Yarome]

If they record no info, then how does the gov know you had an FFL do the engraving??

That was brought up in another thread. If you simply engraved your own in the proper formatting it would likely pass LE scrutiny since a SN check only comes back with any results if it had been previously entered as stolen or crime gun. That's not likely the case in states that require state registration, but in OR.....

To get right down to it, the whole idea that SN's are an important LE tool is completely bogus. In practice, feeb data shows that fewer than 5% of crime guns ever have a trace done. Mostly viewed by LE as a waste of departmental resources since less then .5% ever produce any viable ownership lead (most crime guns being stolen or black market guns) and only a miniscule fraction of those actually contribute in any way toward a conviction.

Typically only in high profile crimes or as a "hail mary" when all other leads have been exhausted.

It seems more about "compliance conditioning" and virtue signaling. "See what we've accomplished" bona fide's.

 

[The Heretic]

That was brought up in another thread. If you simply engraved your own in the proper formatting it would likely pass LE scrutiny since a SN check only comes back with any results if it had been previously entered as stolen or crime gun. That's not likely the case in states that require state registration, but in OR.....

To get right down to it, the whole idea that SN's are an important LE tool is completely bogus. In practice, feeb data shows that fewer than 5% of crime guns ever have a trace done. Mostly viewed by LE as a waste of departmental resources since less then .5% ever produce any viable ownership lead (most crime guns being stolen or black market guns) and only a miniscule fraction of those actually contribute in any way toward a conviction.

Typically only in high profile crimes or as a "hail mary" when all other leads have been exhausted.

It seems more about "compliance conditioning" and virtue signaling. "See what we've accomplished" bona fide's.

Agreed.

But when it comes time for confiscation, find a gun with a "bogus" (not recorded - probably engraved by owner) SN, or one without SN, may result in a court case.

One of the major reasons people want/wanted 80% guns is because they want "off the books" guns that they can hide from the state/ATF/etc. - so having an FFL engrave them and then record that info, doesn't help - even if the state doesn't get that info right away. The gov is playing the 'long game' - eventually they will get around to confiscation.

 

[PiratePast40]

That was brought up in another thread. If you simply engraved your own in the proper formatting it would likely pass LE scrutiny since a SN check only comes back with any results if it had been previously entered as stolen or crime gun. That's not likely the case in states that require state registration, but in OR.....

To get right down to it, the whole idea that SN's are an important LE tool is completely bogus. In practice, feeb data shows that fewer than 5% of crime guns ever have a trace done. Mostly viewed by LE as a waste of departmental resources since less then .5% ever produce any viable ownership lead (most crime guns being stolen or black market guns) and only a miniscule fraction of those actually contribute in any way toward a conviction.

Typically only in high profile crimes or as a "hail mary" when all other leads have been exhausted.

It seems more about "compliance conditioning" and virtue signaling. "See what we've accomplished" bona fide's.

I've heard that tracing firearm serial numbers is as helpful in solving crime as a chalk outline on the sidewalk, but what do I know.