considering a home defense rifle

[U201491]

I feel the best home defense is your birthday suit and ANY gun. because lets face it, what BG is going to want to have to deal with your swinging manhood AND a gun pointed at them. and who is going to try to wrestle away a weapon from someone in the buff? scary things...

ROFLOL

 

[Kruel J]

If you think that any sort of pistol or #1 or 2 shot has anywhere near the level of terminal performance of a good .223 round you need to do some more reading.
Then there is the liability issues associated with the fact that most defensive pistol rounds will go through an average of 3 walls. PPD found that the .223 round they chose would be more or less safe after one.

No argument here. BUT, you can't deny the fact that peering around corners (my house has many) with even the shortest legal AR barrel is more likely to have the barrel grabbed than with a pistol. All good arguments but to the OP's original topic.....no I NEVER scramble for hearing protection. Takes too long. And the .223 is LOUD!

I AM going to start chasing bumps in the night naked though!

 

[40calruler]

They do work well, but the actual db reduction rating is less then a good pair of basic muffs. But what make them so nice is the fact you can hear afterwards.

I was not even aware of these and am going to get some as you guys make a good point for HD that you may not be bothered in the moment due to adrinalin pumping but that does not change a .357 killing your ear drums in a close indoor setting that would amplify the sound like a hallway. Getting those on my Christmas list ASAP.

 

[40calruler]

I feel the best home defense is your birthday suit and ANY gun. because lets face it, what BG is going to want to have to deal with your swinging manhood AND a gun pointed at them. and who is going to try to wrestle away a weapon from someone in the buff? scary things...

Is very true that with my daughters in the house down the hall and my wife next to me I do not take the time to throw on anything if I hear something alarming. pretty much always nothing like the dog knocked over a fan and scared the crap out of me so I jumped out of bed and grabbed my shotgun that was closest to me and ran to the living room naked with my shotgun and my permanently attached gun ready to point at a bad guy.

 

[Flopsweat]

No argument here. BUT, you can't deny the fact that peering around corners (my house has many) with even the shortest legal AR barrel is more likely to have the barrel grabbed than with a pistol. All good arguments but to the OP's original topic.....no I NEVER scramble for hearing protection. Takes too long. And the .223 is LOUD!

I AM going to start chasing bumps in the night naked though!

This:
is a pistol with an 11 1/2 inch barrel. I understand that they make them in 7 1/2 inch too. That thing on the end of the buffer tube is a "wrist stabilizing device". If you choose to stick it against your shoulder that's your business. It goes around corners great and runs like a top. Even louder than its rifle counter part, though.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Might want to ask Santa for a pair of Howard Leight Impact Sport electonic earmuffs. You can crank up the volume to amplify sounds and they cut off anything lounder then 80db.
They should run $40 or so.
On the other hand if you don't have time to dawn them, a bit of hearing loss is acceptable if it means living the next couple decades and not having your family brutalized.

 

[U201491]

Is very true that with my daughters in the house down the hall and my wife next to me I do not take the time to throw on anything if I hear something alarming. pretty much always nothing like the dog knocked over a fan and scared the crap out of me so I jumped out of bed and grabbed my shotgun that was closest to me and ran to the living room naked with my shotgun and my permanently attached gun ready to point at a bad guy.

Hmmm Not sure which one would scare him most........................

 

[40calruler]

Hmmm Not sure which one would scare him most........................

What worried me the most was making sure there was a blanket in the living room to throw on quickly if a kids door opened. Bad guy or no that was my biggest concern once I saw what it was and the fear of someone breaking in was gone and I was thinking straight. I may say I do not take the time but I now have my robe hanging over my nightstand for quick cover up. I learned quick that I better take an extra half second so I do not scare my kids as much as a bad guy. Quickly getting out is one thing but I refuse to scar my kids for life.

 

[WARCHOP37]

No argument here. BUT, you can't deny the fact that peering around corners (my house has many) with even the shortest legal AR barrel is more likely to have the barrel grabbed than with a pistol. All good arguments but to the OP's original topic.....no I NEVER scramble for hearing protection. Takes too long. And the .223 is LOUD!

I AM going to start chasing bumps in the night naked though!

I think I may have unintentionally started a trend...=X I can see the news headlines now...

 

[40calruler]

I think I may have unintentionally started a trend...=X I can see the news headlines now...

Yeah I am going to avoid that trend. Last thing I need is to explain to the cops why my neighbors are calling about me in the backyard naked with a gun looking in the bushes. Aside from in the recent weather they may think I am a very tall woman out there with a very small chest. I think that pistols are great as far as being able to look around a corner and keep your right hand behind the corner out of reach....or left. Though if you are in a mad rush and really think someone is already in you grab what is loaded and at hand like me grabbing the shotgun since she keeps it beside the bed and in the dark it was the first thing I saw and grabbed and ran to the living room. Longer barrel but nothing scarier than hearing me jump out of bed and hearing the sound of a 12 gauge being racked.

 

[BIGMEATY]

Fumbling for your earmuffs will get you killed...good luck with that
You will be shooting through walls/neighbors walls with rifle rounds...and your kids are sleeping in the next room over??
Best bet is a short shotty with 00 Buck or a high capacity handgun (think Glock with the 22 round mags)

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Fumbling for your earmuffs will get you killed...good luck with that
You will be shooting through walls/neighbors walls with rifle rounds...and your kids are sleeping in the next room over??
Best bet is a short shotty with 00 Buck or a high capacity handgun (think Glock with the 22 round mags)

Well if that isn't manly enough what about a bazooka or a shark?!
Frangible ammo is a beautiful thing.
Even a single ear plug would be worth it in the long run.

 

[MarkAd]

"with even the shortest legal AR barrel is more likely to have the barrel grabbed than with a pistol. "
You need serious help with your tactics if your putting your barrel where it can be grabbed.

 

[Flopsweat]

Fumbling for your earmuffs will get you killed...good luck with that
You will be shooting through walls/neighbors walls with rifle rounds...and your kids are sleeping in the next room over??
Best bet is a short shotty with 00 Buck or a high capacity handgun (think Glock with the 22 round mags)

How much time does the average break-in victim have to arm him/her self? How many people per year are killed while fumbling for hearing protection?

 

[BIGMEATY]

I have honestly never heard of anyone going for ear protection along with their HD gun. I really think that is a huge mistake.
My problem is this: it probably takes a good 2-3 seconds, at least, to find your earpro (in the dark???) put them on and then TURN THEM ON if they are electronic? If they are not electronic, you are losing one of your best tools in the dark: YOUR HEARING!!! I think it's pretty ridiculous really to even consider the thought of going for your earpro.

Howabout this. When you know a loud sound is coming, doesn't your brain send a message to your ears cushioning the blow? When you are expecting the sound coming after you pull the trigger, doesn't the sound seem dampened to you? I do not know the proper scientific terminology for our bodies ability to involuntarily and automatically protect itself from loud noises, when you know that sound is coming. When you are surprised by a gunshot, yes it is seriously loud as hell. Do you get what I'm saying? I think most of us know how to manually "shift the jaw" to partially close up the ear canal.

If you have a fortress with layers of security, by all means grab your super cool earmuffs and wait for the bad guy to appear in your sights...but if you are like the average person, you likely only have precious seconds.

Instead of ear protection, I will spend that extra second or two grabbing a good flashlight in addition to my weapon mounted light. I just like making sure who I'd be shooting, but maybe that's just me?

 

[40calruler]

Fumbling for your earmuffs will get you killed...good luck with that
You will be shooting through walls/neighbors walls with rifle rounds...and your kids are sleeping in the next room over??
Best bet is a short shotty with 00 Buck or a high capacity handgun (think Glock with the 22 round mags)

Best advice you have got here. Shotgun with 18.5 inch barrel and I personally use 00 buck 9 ball shells in my Mossberg 500 which I got used at the gunbroker for 199 and it has seen hundreds of shells from me and performs beautifully. Bottom line is for just HD the shotgun is the best way to go even for the reason that everyone in the world knows what the sound is when they hear you pump a shell into the chamber. It is considered by a lot of HD experts the largest deterrent sound you can make when there is a threat in the house. If you want something that you can carry also and cannot have both like many of us do a Glock or M&P as I like that smith gives the different backstraps to change the grip size for your hand size. My bedside gun is a 17rd M&P 9mm with a tactical light and a laser on it.....DO not count on the laser it is just there for fear factor in my case. Red dot on your chest is scary. You still need to become efficient with your gun. M&Ps stock are 17 rd 9mm or 15rd 40 and I have both, love both, Compacts your best bet is wha BIGMEATY said a Glock as I love my 23 it is the best compact 40 around as far as I am concerned and the same size as a Glock 19 again plenty of ammo in those with 15rds in the 19 9mm and 13 rds in the 23 40 cal. You can put in those 22 rounders but you should not need to shoot that many rounds to drop a intruder...I use them for practice only but would shove one in my pocket if I heard a few voices. I would say by far that is the best way to go and the short barrel shotgun is the best HD starting gun anyone can have. Hard to miss with 9 balls in each shot that are all pretty devastating but not so much so to you kids or neighbors like a .223 or 7.62. Blitz gave me an excellent link that settled all this for me a little while back after seeing how devastating a AR or AK round is when it comes to over penetration. I care to much about my family for that. The other great point is you are not going to be trying to find plugs or muffs if you hear someone in your house. Your job if you have kids is to get there as fast as you can not put on your flack jacket and try and come out call of duty style with electric hearing and such. I want those muffs for shooting in the woods for practice but never going to give someone precious extra seconds to get to my kids to gear up with anything more than my gun. If you can afford it get the shotgun and a pistol that fits your hand well.

 

[SCARed]

00 buck is about the worst thing to use indoors. It over penetrates walls like crazy. If your worried about your kids in the room next door, it's definitely NOT what you want to use.

 

[Lange22250]

Best advice you have got here. Shotgun with 18.5 inch barrel and I personally use 00 buck 9 ball shells in my Mossberg 500 which I got used at the gunbroker for 199 and it has seen hundreds of shells from me and performs beautifully. Bottom line is for just HD the shotgun is the best way to go even for the reason that everyone in the world knows what the sound is when they hear you pump a shell into the chamber. It is considered by a lot of HD experts the largest deterrent sound you can make when there is a threat in the house. If you want something that you can carry also and cannot have both like many of us do a Glock or M&P as I like that smith gives the different backstraps to change the grip size for your hand size. My bedside gun is a 17rd M&P 9mm with a tactical light and a laser on it.....DO not count on the laser it is just there for fear factor in my case. Red dot on your chest is scary. You still need to become efficient with your gun. M&Ps stock are 17 rd 9mm or 15rd 40 and I have both, love both, Compacts your best bet is wha BIGMEATY said a Glock as I love my 23 it is the best compact 40 around as far as I am concerned and the same size as a Glock 19 again plenty of ammo in those with 15rds in the 19 9mm and 13 rds in the 23 40 cal. You can put in those 22 rounders but you should not need to shoot that many rounds to drop a intruder...I use them for practice only but would shove one in my pocket if I heard a few voices. I would say by far that is the best way to go and the short barrel shotgun is the best HD starting gun anyone can have. Hard to miss with 9 balls in each shot that are all pretty devastating but not so much so to you kids or neighbors like a .223 or 7.62. Blitz gave me an excellent link that settled all this for me a little while back after seeing how devastating a AR or AK round is when it comes to over penetration. I care to much about my family for that. The other great point is you are not going to be trying to find plugs or muffs if you hear someone in your house. Your job if you have kids is to get there as fast as you can not put on your flack jacket and try and come out call of duty style with electric hearing and such. I want those muffs for shooting in the woods for practice but never going to give someone precious extra seconds to get to my kids to gear up with anything more than my gun. If you can afford it get the shotgun and a pistol that fits your hand well.

Yeah, no.

It's as easy to miss with a shotgun as a rifle at "at home" distances, unless your pattern is so big that you will be scattering pellets over a huge area and each one of those 0-000 pellets are good to go through 3 walls, which eliminates the only edge buck shot loads have in terminal ballistics have when the pattern is tight. I have been told that #6 is about as big as you can go without having over penetration issues, but have never seen any actual testing.

My skeet chokes will give me a about a 6" pattern at 10 yards.

Pick the right .223 bullet and it will be non lethal after 1 interior wall yet still have devastating (more so than a ball 7.62x39) terminal ballistics.

PPD did a very good study of just this issue prior to issuing patrol rifles. The results were very convincing and can be summed up with - The right .223 load will be far superior in the terminal ballistics department and be non lethal after 1 wall where all the tested pistol rounds, slugs and 00-000 buck will potentially be lethal after 3 walls at a minimum. If you dig around hard enough there is a video of the testing that they presented to the Portland city council.

95% of "Home Defense Experts" got together and pulled the "fact" that racking a shotgun "is the best deterrent" out of there collective a$$es after reviewing the extensive non existent studies on the matter.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

00 buck is about the worst thing to use indoors. It over penetrates walls like crazy. If your worried about your kids in the room next door, it's definitely NOT what you want to use.

Actually it penetrates about the same as standard pistol rounds like 9MM and 45 ACP. The 5.56 does at least as much and often more penetration

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

 

[Lange22250]

Actually it penetrates about the same as standard pistol rounds like 9MM and 45 ACP. The 5.56 does at least as much and often more penetration

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

You realize that there are, conservatively, about 40 different .223 bullets to choose from with a dramatic variation in the amount of penetration through wall materials.
There are plenty to chose from that will not be lethal after one interior wall.