considering a home defense rifle

[41Slinger]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but if a rifle for home defense is your choice, you need to consider ammo selection due to over penetration also.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

You can also hear before the shooting starts and that is a critical difference. In reality there probably won't be time to get the muffs on no matter what the type, you will be lucky to acquire and make any weapon ready in time, much less fart around with hearing protection.

Even with a house alarm or a faithful and loud canine, there are several seconds when you're waking from a sound sleep and you will be thinking, "what the heck is going on? (smash goes the door) Oh, somebody's really breaking in..." there goes at least 4 seconds, right there.

Do a little experiment. Start at the outside of your front door, and (by opening it) pretend you've kicked it in. Now, going as fast as you can, see how far you can get between the front door and your bedroom in 4 seconds. One thousand-one, one thousand two... Where does that place your intruder?

Now add four more seconds to fiddle with some earmuffs before you've armed yourself. Now where is the intruder?

If noise is going to be a factor, then maybe stick a Noveske Flaming Pig on there, or invest in a $1,200 30-cal suppressor. Chances are fair to good that by the time the tax stamp arrives next year, you will not have suffered a break-in and you can shoot that 30 cal. suppressor on about any rifle caliber.

I'd not fret about earmuffs in a home invasion situation, if the intruders kill you or a family member while you're messing with that stuff, what's the point?

Just as bad, I would be concerned with the proposition the prosecutors or plaintiffs in the inevitable civil lawsuit would use, and that is, "Your honor, this defendant (you, now,) intended to shoot someone that night; that's why he put on those hearing protectors. Why, this is tantamount to premeditation!" "Why didn't he call 911 instead of putting in those earplugs?" Now you're the next George Zimmerman.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Suck your thumb with great gusto. Boo m! goot talk

 

[mancat]

Personally I would not want to fire a rifle indoors, no matter what.

If I was going to, I would choose a .223 rifle of some type and use light-grain defensive rounds designed to avoid penetration - e.g. Hornady V-Max or any other light-grain ballistic-tipped round.

Some even suggest that most .223 varmint loads with ballistic-tipped bullets will give the same results for a fraction of the price of comparable "defensive" loads. For this reason (and for coyotes) I keep several mags for my Saiga .223 loaded with American Eagle 50gr Tipped Varmint, but I hope I never ever have to use it for that purpose because I value my hearing - as is discussed heartily in this thread.

A pistol-caliber carbine is also a great choice, as there is a wide selection of ammo from which you can pick and choose rounds that will not overpenetrate.

 

[Kruel J]

Why even choose a rifle for HD? Longer barrel = more exposed around corners. Rifles are typically louder as is your concern. Round penetration is way too much IMHO with a centerfire rifle cartridge. Either way, a reliable pistol and, if need be, a good shotgun are my #1 and #2. When I hear a "bump in the night" the AR stays in the safe.

 

[rdt]

how about just wearing noise canceling ear plugs all night?

yes, tinnitus sucks. it's one on a fairly short list of great life regrets

you all don't think 12ga is loud inside?

 

[Lange22250]

Why even choose a rifle for HD? Longer barrel = more exposed around corners. Rifles are typically louder as is your concern. Round penetration is way too much IMHO with a centerfire rifle cartridge. Either way, a reliable pistol and, if need be, a good shotgun are my #1 and #2. When I hear a "bump in the night" the AR stays in the safe.

If you think that any sort of pistol or #1 or 2 shot has anywhere near the level of terminal performance of a good .223 round you need to do some more reading.
Then there is the liability issues associated with the fact that most defensive pistol rounds will go through an average of 3 walls. PPD found that the .223 round they chose would be more or less safe after one.

 

[Classic]

Uncle Joe's home defense, 12 gauge side by side....

 

[SCARed]

Sounds like most need to read up on modern ballistics. .223/5.56 is one of the better indoor defensive rounds. Less penetration thru walls than most pistol rounds. After the first wall the round starts tumbling and rapidly loses energy as opposed to pistol rounds which will keep going thru multiple walls.

 

[orygun]

What did he say?

Huh?

I'm one of those guys who has some ringing in the ears, too. It's not bad, but it's there. I'll bet it was from 5 rounds of .41 Mag out of a 4 5/8" Blackhawk about 25 years ago... About the only time I ever shot anything more powerful than a 22 without hearing protection of some kind. I will only shoot my old, long barreled Marlin 22 rifle without hearing protection now.

Except for hunting. Fortunately for my ears, I don't often shoot when hunting... But I can't ever remember hearing anything but an up close, finishing shot. (will do something about the ears if I ever have to do that again, too) Anytime I shot at game the adrenaline was flowing. For defense, I'll bet it's flowing a bit more than when I see Bambi! I suppose if you have some muffs that are like the hunting ones which amplify small sounds and cancel large ones you could have the best of both worlds.

As far as accuracy with the shorter barrel, the shorter sight radius that comes with the shorter barrel is more likely the culprit than the length of the barrel. If you use optics the shorter barrel may even turn out to be the more accurate one. It won't have quite the velocity of the longer tube, but length has little to do with being accurate.

 

[mikeybuck]

I've had the ringing in my ears since before I was 18.... young and dumb lol...I'll be living with it for the rest of my life. Now I ware plugs all the time, even with 22s, mowing the yard, working in the shop with power tools, etc. I even changed out my exhaust for one that didn't have a tone that hurt my ears....
But if some tweeker breaks onto my place while I'm here, the last thing I'm gonna do is plug my ears.
Mossberg 500 8 shot, 00 buck and slugs.

 

[Flopsweat]

Sounds like most need to read up on modern ballistics. .223/5.56 is one of the better indoor defensive rounds. Less penetration thru walls than most pistol rounds. After the first wall the round starts tumbling and rapidly loses energy as opposed to pistol rounds which will keep going thru multiple walls.

Tumbling is for military rounds. Civilians can use hollow-points which tend to perform better. You're still right though. A civilian 223/5.45 with a 55 or 60 grain bullet and an expanding tip will give sufficient penetration of the bad guy and at the same time penetrate drywall less than a typical 9mm. Sounds all wrong but the increased velocity over pistol ammo means that on impact the bullet expands faster and slows down more - in fast, out slow. (Yeah, I guess I just said that...)

That said, a 9mm carbine will be much easier on the ears and have way less muzzle flash. Follow up shots are a lot easier if you're not blind and deaf.

 

[U201491]

Why are you concerned about sound? For the bad guys or yourself?

If you have a need for a home defense weapon, in stressful situations when a weapon is needed, you'll have so much adrenaline pumping that loud sounds are the last of your worries.

A sound you dont hear might be deadly. I wont shoot under 99% of the time without hearing protection, but if it comes to life or death, I want all my senses working.
Like simon99 said you probably wont hear the shots in that scenario anyway, unless you are acclimatized to shooting people on a daily basis and probably will dump your mag thinking you fired once.
My hearing is already gone, but whats left may be all I need. Also if you are in town or have kids in various parts of your home a rifle might be a bad idea. A mag fed handgun is much more maneuverable and will most likely just go through 1 or 2 walls instead of all of them and your neighbors too.
If its more than 50 or 60 feet or out across a field or larger distance then the rifle.
In home is most likely going to be 5 to 15 ft.
Remember you will most likely have to go to get the rifle and the handgun can be with you all the time.

 

[John Gault]

And then there was the 80's Hair Metal bands on top of everything else... Ring up another member of the 24/7 ring a ding club here. :rockstar::buttrock::drunk:

 

[Redcap]

FAL. Accept no substitute.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Don't forget your safety glasses.

As a rule, I never fire weapons without hearing protection. In fact, I use hearing protection any time I think of it; from hammering to sawing and even vacuuming (when women are scarce). The last thing I would ever think about is donning ear plugs when investigating a bump in the night - ain't nobody got time for that. Hell, I don't even take time to put my pants on.

Listen. you're going to want to hear someone shuffling around. How you plan to do this with ear muffs on? This coming from someone who has been indoors when a .223 was fired and I'm still hearing just fine, thankfully.

 

[WARCHOP37]

Don't forget your safety glasses.

As a rule, I never fire weapons without hearing protection. In fact, I use hearing protection any time I think of it; from hammering to sawing and even vacuuming (when women are scarce). The last thing I would ever think about is donning ear plugs when investigating a bump in the night - ain't nobody got time for that. Hell, I don't even take time to put my pants on.

Listen. you're going to want to hear someone shuffling around. How you plan to do this with ear muffs on? This coming from someone who has been indoors when a .223 was fired and I'm still hearing just fine, thankfully.

I feel the best home defense is your birthday suit and ANY gun. because lets face it, what BG is going to want to have to deal with your swinging manhood AND a gun pointed at them. and who is going to try to wrestle away a weapon from someone in the buff? scary things...

 

[Salps]

M1 carbine is my home defense rifle. Very light and slow and bigger than .223

 

[Certaindeaf]

FAL. Accept no substitute.

You left out the "I".

 

[dwaineshort]

Tavor sar 16"
26.1" over all. Shorter then a 10" barrel ar15 with it's stock collapsed.