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Define overpay. Its an ignorant point of view of the subject matter.

Its cool to take passive aggressive stabs at people without providing any value or substance. Its how some of you circumvent the "Be Excellent" line while crying out like a woman when people are direct and call you out.

Not everything is an opinion and not all opinions are equal. The sooner you learn this the better off you will be.

Did you assume I was talking about you? I didn't even quote you :p. There's nothing really passive aggressive about it. We can have a very civil conversation regardless of opinions, if you were injured by my words that weren't directed at you I'm sorry. I'm not sure you're in a position to explain to me what I should learn or how quickly, since we are effectively strangers that know nothing about each other I could assume you're an idiot just as easily as I could assume you are a genius highly skilled in your field of work. I prefer not to assign any assumptions to strangers and instead think of you as simply another member of this forum. Hello! Glad to share this space with you!

To answer one of your questions directly, overpay can mean several things. Someone can buy a $2500 AR by a particular brand, then see something that (as far as they know based on how often they shoot it) looks and performs the exact same as one that cost $500 from a different brand. Unless side by side comparisons are done to objectively determine performance, it's very hard to say if one rifle is "worth" significantly more than another. I like the AKOU 5000 round test for example, that seems very helpful for consumers.

When we talk about AR's, since they are such cookie cutter rifles, comparing "high end" to "low end" can get very tough. For one thing, if they both go "bang" reliably then they have both fulfilled their primary role, along those lines they are equal and if someone paid $2500 for a rifle that shoots reliably when they could have got one for $500 that does the same thing, they definitely overpaid regarding that metric.

Comparing accuracy, there are some AR's that are highly accurate and others that are less so. If one AR shoots consistently 1/2 MOA and another shoots consistently 3 MOA, in terms of accuracy one is definitely better than the other, but how much that matters is highly dependent on how it is used. Inside of 50 ft it wouldn't make much difference. Inside of 100 yards it would be potentially 2.5 inches for example, whether that matters or not seems to depend on what the rifle has to be capable of for its intended job. I'd assume most AR's can easily do 3MOA for example while a great many of them can do much better than that.

For the sake of brevity since this is already a long post I won't continue with specific comparisons, but my primary point being that there are significant differences in price between AR's depending on brand, how much of that is reflected by true superiority vs how much is marketing and notoriety seems very debatable. For the sake of science, I'd love to see a side by side trial comparison of many different brands to see how they really shake out. After it was all said and done, if a high end AR outperformed a "value AR" it would really depend on how much it outperformed it by and in what way to determine in my mind if it warranted the price difference for me as the consumer. I don't think sellers want that test though, very expensive AR brands have nothing to gain since many already regard them as "high end" and if it were shown they were more fluff than function that would ruin their ability to demand the prices they do. Lower cost AR sellers are marketing to an entirely different customer base. I akin it to people who buy BMW or Lexus or Mercedes, vs Toyota/Honda. They all serve the same function of getting someone from A to B, but they look different doing it and there is definitely is a level of status assigned to some vehicles whether it is truly warranted or not. Maybe my car analogy is flawed and I should have used Lotus or Ferrari or Porsche.

If you have definitive test data for a set number of rounds that compares brand performance under the same conditions, please share. That type of contribution would be very appreciated, but without that information, it would seem:

"Not everything is an opinion and not all opinions are equal. The sooner you learn this the better off you will be." ;)

Either way, glad to hear your thoughts.
 

That's neat, seemed as much a testament to that lubricant as the rifle. If that rifle has kept going through that many rounds, that's pretty great.

Here's a sub $500 gun doing 5000 rounds and still functioning. How much more could it do, don't know, I personally don't want to fund the ammo just to test that out :)

If I have a chance to try out a KAC I'll have to see if I am 'blown away.'
 
No they don't. They use the same vendors, and test everything that comes through whether its made in house or by one of their select vendors is tested and QAed.. Both destructive and non destructive testing to ensure conformance to spec and metallurgy/heat treatment.

A tight fitting AR means nothing. Its all Barrel, ammo and trigger, with the upper receiver stiffness coming into play and assuming its been properly timed and free -floated.

A company buying another company does not mean you basically got the same thing. It could not be further from the truth.

There is no such thing as exceeding mil spec. Its either within the specifications, or it is not. And whether is mil spec or not has little to do with performance.

Stop talking about things with authority when you have zero correct information on the subject.

You don't know what you don't know.

Go build a Ford F-150 from aftermarket parts from the ground up and let me know how that works out for you. Assuming you can actually get it to run, let me know how its holding up after 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 200,000 miles.

LMAO. I know and deal with many contractors. You don't know what you don't know. BTW, I used to do business with a company called Mustangs Unlimited. You could literally build a Mustang from what they had in their shop. I don't know how they held up, but people did do it.

Firearms aren't automobiles. I was trained on how to build M1a rifles by the late Hook Boutin. You can Google him. I have a rifle that we built from parts that has seen some serious use and can still do under one inch groups at a hundred yards. I also have a match rifle he basically built while teaching me. Connoisseurs of that family of weapons take one look at can tell you it's a Hook Boutin build.

I don't see how the AR can be any different. I have seen this argument before:

Does Colt make all their own parts? - AR15.COM

I can tell you with absolute certainty that I worked on a legal case a couple of decades ago wherein a man was charged with possession of a machine gun. As it turned out, Colt was running behind and put two machine gun parts in a factory rifle and those parts were shipped to Colt from a third party vendor. So, again, you don't know what you don't know, but thanks.
 
I can tell you with absolute certainty that I worked on a legal case a couple of decades ago wherein a man was charged with possession of a machine gun. As it turned out, Colt was running behind and put two machine gun parts in a factory rifle and those parts were shipped to Colt from a third party vendor. So, again, you don't know what you don't know, but thanks.

Wut?

And this... this is getting old...

You don't know what you don't know.

But PLEASE!!! Do tell about these, "machine gun parts in a factory rifle" that made it into the civilian market!
Please!
 
I've shot everything from home builds, Andersons, Colts, FN, ect

There is definitely a difference between "low" and "high" end ARs.

With that said you certainly could do a home build by price shopping quality components.

Interesting to note that the teenager who shot the two rioters earlier this week had a DPMS with a Sightmark red dot....

We have guys saying you cannot build a high end AR, but it's done all the time:


To the doubters I asked them if they had a rifle that they would put up against a build I know of sporting a Sionics 1 x 8 twist barrel with a Toolcraft BCG (upper and lower are Spikes.) After a 10,000 plus round count, the groupings can be held to under an inch with Black Hills ammo. I tried to order a barrel after learning of that, but Sionics isn't currently selling them since all of them are being put on Sionics built rifles.
 
I just finished my third AR15 build. Anderson parts, excellent fit and finsh. 223 Wylde, 350 Legend and 277 Wolvrine all three are X-Calaiber 24 inch heavy barrels with target crowns. All are flat tops with 15 inch M-Lok hand guards. Accracy is spot on at 200 yards. My next build will also be with Anderson parts and X-Caliber barrels. Just have to decide what caliber I want. Now back to the what is a better pickup, Chevrolet, Ford or Dodge.
 
Now back to the what is a better pickup, Chevrolet, Ford or Dodge.

Pffft.

Reo. :cool:

reo.jpeg
 
To the doubters I asked them if they had a rifle that they would put up against a build I know of sporting a Sionics 1 x 8 twist barrel with a Toolcraft BCG (upper and lower are Spikes.) After a 10,000 plus round count, the groupings can be held to under an inch with Black Hills ammo. I tried to order a barrel after learning of that, but Sionics isn't currently selling them since all of them are being put on Sionics built rifles.

Put yourself on an email notification over at Primary Arms, be aware Sionics is has recently starting selling Nitride finished barrels due to popular demand so if you want a CL one watch for them.
 

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