"Cheap" versus High End ARs

[rjmt]

when I converted my Colt big hole HBAR to an A4 upper, i used a Daniel Defence upper
the castings matched perfectly - didn't even need a rubber insert to tighten up the upper/lower fit
the rear take down pin fits really tight

 

[The Resister]

Thanks for the info - the reason I asked is because for example in one video a Palmetto rifle had the gas tube give out / melt after about 400 rounds of full auto with back to back mags. So my question was about how many does a "battle rifle" have to be able to do. Having never been in combat, I can't speak from experience, but it personally seemed to me that 400 rounds on full auto out of an AR15 was a unrealistic use of the rifle and I didn't know if that was even a realistic combat experience since it seemed there were other weaponry more specifically designed for that role, like the SAW.

I posted the limitations on the PSA based upon a melt down test and another man showing you he received parts from PSA made by two different manufacturers. There was a poster that had a lot of negative comments and I didn't feel he was as knowledgeable about business and engineering as we was knowledgeable about technical aspects of the M 16.

There are a lot of companies that sell to the public and say that they are selling parts from "various military contractors." Are they all lying and there is only one company that sells the parts? To put this in a shorter form, the analogy was made that you cannot build an automobile from aftermarket parts. In some cases, aftermarket car parts exceed OEM parts:

If a "part" says it meets or exceeds OEM specs, but sells for 80 percent less, what does that say about the quality of the OEM part?

If a "part" says it meets or exceeds OEM specs, but sells for 80 percent less, what does that say about the quality of the OEM part?

www.counterman.com

So, let's continue the analogy here. Have you ever seen a case wherein someone found a car chassis (the equivalent to a receiver on a firearm) and put in a new transmission, engine and rebuilt the car from the ground up and came out with a car just as reliable as the original car? Have you ever seen a restored car that was built to the original manufacturer's specs? Did you know that there are parts suppliers for cars like the Mustang (that I'm personally aware of) wherein there are parts companies that build parts to the OEM blueprints AND in competitions, judges scrutinize the cars to make sure parts are original and / or spec parts?

A car, like a firearm, can be built by a single individual and look, perform, and last like the original. But, firearms are not as complex as cars. I covered the fact that a finite number of companies build the actual lower. LMT sells mil spec rifles to the general public. You will see the USMC using LMT rifles. The difference is that civilian versions don't have the fully auto fire control group, the auto sear, or the hole drilled for the auto sear. The civilian lowers also have thicker walls where the auto sear goes to keep people from trying to put automatic parts in a semi auto weapon.

So, you can buy LMT firearms, lowers, parts, etc. So, if you owned an AR lower made by the same people who made lowers for the military and you bought quality parts, quality control checked them (measuring them, using a micrometer on critical parts), and built the rifle using the military specs (i.e. checking the headspace, trigger pull, etc.) then you have something that can deliver the equivalent performance to any factory firearm of similar / same components. I asked if a weapon, custom built, that could shoot a five shot group under 1 inch at a hundred yards after 10,000 rounds would do. I don't know what some people think a combat rifle is capable of. Maybe it's a matter of opinion. Parts? You decide if my info is accurate:

High Quality OEM & Aftermarket Firearms Components/Parts

We are distinctly qualified to produce a higher quality end product as an ISO 9001:2015 certified manufacturing facility. Azimuth is DOD-registered and has a Commercial and Government Entity (CAGE) code to identify as a designated supplier to defense agencies. We are also licensed in...

www.azimuthtechnology.com

 

[The Resister]

What a problem to have! Thanks for the feedback. I've read that iconel (I believe) gas tubes are much more resilient, but again, will I ever do 400 rounds on full auto, no - so whether that matters to me or not, time will tell.

Be forewarned: An inconel gas tube will not fail. That is the problem. Stoner deliberately designed the gas tube to fail in order to keep the weapon from blowing up in your face. So, you should get a good quality gas tube, but just my .02 cents worth, avoid the inconel. It's your life to gamble on.

 

[American123]

Be forewarned: An inconel gas tube will not fail. That is the problem. Stoner deliberately designed the gas tube to fail in order to keep the weapon from blowing up in your face. So, you should get a good quality gas tube, but just my .02 cents worth, avoid the inconel. It's your life to gamble on.

Great points! Thanks for the info, that makes sense. I'm personally not worried about melting my gas tube, never will be doing full auto, or 400 rounds in 2 minutes.

 

[powermad]

I think when people say combat ready, they mean for it to be reliable out of the box and not take a crap when you need it.

Take PSA for an example, while they do shoot out of the box I wouldn't consider them combat ready.
They can be made to be reliable but it's up to the end user to tear it completely down and check everything.
Which being an AR there isn't all that much to it really.

Simple things I have noticed, like gas blocks incorrectly mounted and not drilled for the set screws can turn it into a club in a hurry.
Barrel nuts not torqued to spec.
Upper receiver face not square. While this won't make it not shoot, the sights being cranked all the way to the left or right drives me crazy.

All easily fixed but if you pay a premium for a rifle then you don't have to do all that.
If spending a couple hours squaring it all away is no big deal then it's a non issue.
I suppose you could send it back to be fixed but most of that stuff can be taken care of in the time it takes to pack it up and send it off.

 

[The Resister]

I think when people say combat ready, they mean for it to be reliable out of the box and not take a crap when you need it.

Take PSA for an example, while they do shoot out of the box I wouldn't consider them combat ready.
They can be made to be reliable but it's up to the end user to tear it completely down and check everything.
Which being an AR there isn't all that much to it really.

Simple things I have noticed, like gas blocks incorrectly mounted and not drilled for the set screws can turn it into a club in a hurry.
Barrel nuts not torqued to spec.
Upper receiver face not square. While this won't make it not shoot, the sights being cranked all the way to the left or right drives me crazy.

All easily fixed but if you pay a premium for a rifle then you don't have to do all that.
If spending a couple hours squaring it all away is no big deal then it's a non issue.
I suppose you could send it back to be fixed but most of that stuff can be taken care of in the time it takes to pack it up and send it off.

We covered a lot of that. I go back to what Reid Henrichs over at Valor Ridge teaches. No matter whether you build or buy your weapon, don't trust it until you've run a few thousand rounds through it in ALL kinds of different situations: rapid fire, mag dump, shooting in the rain, cold and sweltering heat. Shoot five shot groups, let the barrel cool, do five more rounds. The more you know it can take, the more confident you should be depending on it. Just because it came from the best companies does mean it will perform as expected. Make your weapon earn your confidence.