"Cheap" versus High End ARs

[Gunbuggy]

A side by side comparison would be interesting

No need bro! The bcm's can't even keep up with my 279 dollar psa upper. I'd make a video but the bcm would probably just fail so I don't want to waste my time.

 

[Boboclown]

high end like a PWS

If it doesn't have a PWS piston upper attached, no reason for a PWS lower.

 

[ronin223]

If it doesn't have a PWS piston upper attached, no reason for a PWS lower.

Got it because of looks. Was the lowest quality lower I have ever owned. Trigger pin holes were out of spec.

 

[American123]

No need bro! The bcm's can't even keep up with my 279 dollar psa upper. I'd make a video but the bcm would probably just fail so I don't want to waste my time.

Bummer, I was hoping for one. I'll look online there might be one already there. There are many metrics that could be compared. # of rounds fired before stoppage, types of stoppages experienced, accuracy of rounds fired. If something performs 3x as better in a way that can be measured, and it is also 3x the price, that would make sense.

 

[Boboclown]

Got it because of looks. Was the lowest quality lower I have ever owned. Trigger pin holes were out of spec.

Never had that issue, but I never bought just a lower from them either so...

 

[wired]

Worst upper Ive owned was a 10" Daniel Defense upper in 300BO . 300 supers were all it would cycle reliably and it keyholed 240 grain subs. Worst lower ( besides olympic arms ) was an Anderson. Hard to screw a lower up but if a milspec upper wont close on it without filing the lug theres a problem. To be honest the best 300BO barrel Ive owned was a 7,5" Anderson that would cycle anything and was a true 2 MOA shooter.

 

[Boboclown]

I only had experience with two anderson lowers.
Both times fitting had to be done. But at least with mine the screw for the pistol grip actually went in all the way.

 

[Quirt Evans]

One of the big reasons for a wide price range between rifles of fairly equal quality is often not thought of.
The tax and cost base.
For example, Colt is located in a state with high taxes/fees/high living costs, and their workforce is unionized,, this raises their costs much more than some company located in a more business friendly state.
As such, they have to charge more for their products, even though some other makes might equal, or better them in overall quality.

 

[rednek80]

I just built a Wilson Combat matched set with Wilson parts, BCM bolt carrier group, POF trigger, and a Ballistic Advantage barrel for $945. It will hold 1/2" groups at 100 yards. The same rifle complete from Wilson would cost over $2000. Nuff said.

 

[Gunbuggy]

Bummer, I was hoping for one. I'll look online there might be one already there. There are many metrics that could be compared. # of rounds fired before stoppage, types of stoppages experienced, accuracy of rounds fired. If something performs 3x as better in a way that can be measured, and it is also 3x the price, that would make sense.

In all seriousness I wonder if there would even be a video comparing the two, they're polar opposites on the spectrum when it comes to pricing and quality. I make fun of psa but I have had a few and all of them were great. One of my 10.5 CHF barreled psa uppers was a little rough when doing a "press check" type verification for a round in the chamber. Functioned totally fine, but felt really rugged and a little tough to extract a round by hand. Not sure what that was about.
But I wouldn't grab any of my PSAs when SHTF and it's time to go to work. I'd grab my DD or one of the BCM's

 

[Buster1]

I just built a Wilson Combat matched set with Wilson parts, BCM bolt carrier group, POF trigger, and a Ballistic Advantage barrel for $945. It will hold 1/2" groups at 100 yards. The same rifle complete from Wilson would cost over $2000. Nuff said.

View attachment 742359 View attachment 742360 View attachment 742361

Try some five shot groups and get back to us.

 

[American123]

In all seriousness I wonder if there would even be a video comparing the two, they're polar opposites on the spectrum when it comes to pricing and quality. I make fun of psa but I have had a few and all of them were great. One of my 10.5 CHF barreled psa uppers was a little rough when doing a "press check" type verification for a round in the chamber. Functioned totally fine, but felt really rugged and a little tough to extract a round by hand. Not sure what that was about.
But I wouldn't grab any of my PSAs when SHTF and it's time to go to work. I'd grab my DD or one of the BCM's

Thanks for the info. When I got into the AR game years ago I went the PSA route. Through various competitions and my own personal use I've had great experience, could be lucky I suppose, they seem to make/use different levels of quality components between their different lines.

I've handled Colt, tested out a Larue Predator, but they didn't cause me to think differently, not a thorough test by any means, maybe after all this madness is over I'll have to put together a BCM and see for myself if I have been missing something this whole time.

I've considered PSA the "value" option, something that works well beyond its price point. My personal preference is for bullpups, the Tavor is my favorite, but when the Tavor was $1500+ and a complete PSA AR was $500, if I wanted multiple rifles the AR was the way to go.

 

[nk02442]

High end is KAC, Everything else is a downgrade from there.

LMT, BCM, DD, Colt, & Geissele is the next step down.

Almost everything else is marketing, junk products and Bullbubblegum.

 

[nk02442]

I just built a Wilson Combat matched set with Wilson parts, BCM bolt carrier group, POF trigger, and a Ballistic Advantage barrel for $945. It will hold 1/2" groups at 100 yards. The same rifle complete from Wilson would cost over $2000. Nuff said.

View attachment 742359 View attachment 742360 View attachment 742361

You should ask one of our site sponders about his brand new factory Wilson rifle that can't group and run right.

 

[Buster1]

I'd put Sons of Liberty Gun Works against anything DD, BCM, Colt, Geissele, LMT put out.

 

[nk02442]

I'd put Sons of Liberty Gun Works against anything DD, BCM, Colt, Geissele, LMT put out.

Yea small boquique reseller of parts they don't even make over the top manufactures in the world who consitantly put out weapons that militaries and law enforement agencies who shoot more ammo in a month than anyone is putting through a SOW gun in a lifetime....

 

[UnionMillsNW]

I've shot everything from home builds, Andersons, Colts, FN, ect

There is definitely a difference between "low" and "high" end ARs.

With that said you certainly could do a home build by price shopping quality components.

Interesting to note that the teenager who shot the two rioters earlier this week had a DPMS with a Sightmark red dot....

 

[nk02442]

Here is the secret no one wants to tell you or admit.

You cannot build as rifle as good as a high end AR. Well you can, assuming you use the exact parts sourced separate that go into their system.

SR15 for example is a system. Its greater than the sum of its parts. You cannot built a gun that shoots that soft, is that reliable, is that durable. Its impossible.

Same for a Colt or LMT Rifle. It takes millions of collective rounds through the same exact system to vet it. Usualy there is rework done as a result to optimize the system.

 

[The Resister]

The high end AR lowers now from companies like LMT or Radians are high end not because of quality of material or workmanship but also they have extra features like the radian allows you to lock the bolt back with the magazine release button. LMT and ADM have a bolt release on both sides.

Some high end are only in name only like NOVESKE, PWS, colt. you are basically buying because of branding

some mid end lowers like aero are actually better than a high end like a PWS

low ends like anderson are out of spec. if you just stock parts no problems. try putting in a match trigger on an anderson. some times it works some times it does not because the tolerances are not that tight

Don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but Shotgun News (before becoming Firearm News) evaluated a host of lowers. IIRC there were only about half a dozen companies providing the forgings for AR lowers. Anderson Arms was rated as high as the DPMS, Bushmaster, and other mil spec. lowers. Admittedly, I have never put a match trigger on an Anderson, but I have a rifle built on an Anderson lower that fits tight and delivers just as good as any other receiver out there for the intended purpose.

 

[The Resister]

Here is the secret no one wants to tell you or admit.

You cannot build as rifle as good as a high end AR. Well you can, assuming you use the exact parts sourced separate that go into their system.

SR15 for example is a system. Its greater than the sum of its parts. You cannot built a gun that shoots that soft, is that reliable, is that durable. Its impossible.

Same for a Colt or LMT Rifle. It takes millions of collective rounds through the same exact system to vet it. Usualy there is rework done as a result to optimize the system.

I must be on a roll today. Even Colt and LMT change vendors on a frequent basis. I bought an LMT upper on a Gunbroker auction once. I had a PWA lower that I had owned for a few decades. An armorer friend and I mated the two together. I ended up holding the delta ring down while he used a rubber mallet to get the handguards in. It's the tightest fitting rifle I own. If you don't think it will perform as good as any factory weapon, come see me. Let's go to the range. FWIW, PWA was bought out by LMT when LMT started so I've probably got the equivalent of a factory LMT since it's built on the same tooling, using the same parts, etc.

In any event, when factory guns change vendors frequently so it makes me believe that your argument won't stand up to scrutiny. Add to that, some aftermarket companies make parts that exceed milspec. How would you feel about a Spikes upper and lower running a Sionics 1 x 8 barrel with a Toolcraft BCG and delivering shot groups under an inch at a hundred yards after 10,000 rounds?