Armed Citizens make a difference

[bbbass]

IMO: BASIC rights, human rights, God given rights, cannot be taken away. But they can be contravened, denied, violated, infringed, oppressed, subverted, etc etc etc. Watch your back!

 

[Stomper]

Gaan kak in die kaap!

Transliterated into.... "Go sheite in the cape!"


Allllllllriiiiighty then!

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

There was a tenuous online article in 2012 or 2013 about the negative effects that resulted from the public shaming of registered gun owners back East, an anti 2a group or jurisdiction released the names and addresses of gun owners in the city or state...

It seems as though the homes that were NOT on the list, were more suseptable to property and violent crime(s).



Backfire!

Tenuous or not; the rationale behind the article clearly passes the deductive reasoning test.

 

[Goosebrown]

Transliterated into.... "Go sheite in the cape!"


Allllllllriiiiighty then!

Most afrikaaners are in the orange free state and Transvaal. Telling someone to crap on the cape is telling them to poop on the Brits... sorry Tac

 

[tac]

Transliterated into.... "Go sheite in the cape!"

hat.

It means 'go cr*p in your hat.'

tac

 

[P7M13]

At first glance, I did not see that it was "trending upward," because I saw numbers bouncing around.
I looked at the data using Excel and their rudimentary statistical functions:



So yes, there is a slight trend upward, though I would prefer to juxtaposition the data against other metrics.

Thank you for posting that. I found it interesting that:

• Private citizen justifiable homicide numbers were 64% of the number of justifiable homicides by law enforcement. i would have thought that law enforcement commit far more justifiable homicides, but I guess that justifiable homicides by citizens are likely to be covered far less in the press than those committed by law enforcement
• The ratio of handgun usage vs. rifle and shotgun also surprised me. Citizense were 20 times more likely to use a handgun, while LEOs were only 6 times more likely to use a handgun. And yet LEOs walk around with pistols every day and only use rifles in felony / violent crime interventions
• If there are 276 instances in one year, against 16 million estimated licensed firearm owners, it means one's chance is 1 in 58,000 of using a firearm in a justifiable homicide situation, inside of one year. That excludes justifiable use of force that did not result in a death; that would be more likely, and would be a higher likelihood of occurrence

This data is almost a year old though; I would like to see data from 2017, though I wouldn't expect it to vary significantly from the multi-year trend that the prior data demonstrates.

I would think, in ruling a homicide "justifiable", the test for LEOs is much more stringent than citizens. I would also think, when perpetrating a crime, LEOs would be far less likely to be the intended victim.
It would be very interesting data to see how many crimes are committed against armed citizens where the citizen did NOT prevail, whether or not they died.

 

[Stomper]

hat.

It means 'go cr*p in your hat.'

tac

But I don't tend to wear hats!

 

[Goosebrown]

But I don't tend to wear hats!

Sorry? You don't tend to wear hats or pants? I get confused.

 

[Stomper]

So you're saying my face looks like feet?

 

[IronMonster]

At first glance, I did not see that it was "trending upward," because I saw numbers bouncing around.
I looked at the data using Excel and their rudimentary statistical functions:

View attachment 418744

So yes, there is a slight trend upward, though I would prefer to juxtaposition the data against other metrics.
View attachment 418745


I would think, in ruling a homicide "justifiable", the test for LEOs is much more stringent than citizens. I would also think, when perpetrating a crime, LEOs would be far less likely to be the intended victim.
It would be very interesting data to see how many crimes are committed against armed citizens where the citizen did NOT prevail, whether or not they died.

What a nerd....

 

[Stomper]

I give our company's CFO crap ever now and then about being a "nerdy numbers guy", and sometimes will snore really loudly when walking past his office door.... he LHAO and admits I'm right.... all the way to the bank.

 

[IronMonster]

I only poke fun because I am impressed

 

[Seraphim38]

@P7id10T I appreciate your response.

I am analytical at heart--I was born that way. It is a major part of my professional life: I have spent countless hours in Excel analyzing data, performing regression analysis and looking for trends.

I have done some quick searching for these types of statistics, and found that each publication shows results that vary significantly in magnitude. It does seem common amongst multiple sources that incidents are becoming more frequent.

Regarding your curiosity about statistics related to crimes against legally armed citizens, I find it ironic that there is such a strong force of lobbying in Washington from the NRA and others, and yet there seems to be a far higher portion of publicity that questions LEO uses of force, in contrast to press coverage for lawful use of force [in pursuit of justice and the preservation of the community].

If lobbying agencies and money behind gun rights advocacy spent more time working to balance the scales of public opinion regarding the value of personal defense, maybe public opinion could be more in support of righteous use of force events.

It is clear that liberal media is quick to publish statistics that are biased against LEOs who in good faith put up with delinquints on a daily basis. Ungrateful fools, who would rather be overcome by unlawful anarchists than submit to the need for legitimate policing.

It is truly a sad day when the desires or rights of the one become more important than the sanctity of the community.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

@P7id10T

It is truly a sad day when the desires or rights of the one become more important than the sanctity of the community.

Ya lost me on the last (most revealing) paragraph...

 

[Dave Workman]

Well, somebody who read my companion piece in the Conservative Firing Line apparently didn't take it too well:
Dave Workman

Here's the piece they didn't like. The comment is clear at the bottom.
Armed citizens made a difference in 2017

 

[nammac]

Well, somebody who read my companion piece in the Conservative Firing Line apparently didn't take it too well:
Dave Workman

Here's the piece they didn't like. The comment is clear at the bottom.
Armed citizens made a difference in 2017

There's simply no accounting for some people's ignorance. Keep
Up the good word Dave!

 

[Goosebrown]

Thanks for standing up Dave. Pays not to forget who we're fighting.

 

[Seraphim38]

Ya lost me on the last (most revealing) paragraph...

I am confused about your statement that I lost you on the last paragraph, and yet you say it was the most revealing paragraph.

When I was studying for my degree in Criminal Justice, in our constitutional law class there was much debate about how laws have to be forged with a balance between protecting the individual's rights, and protecting the community.

For example; the law may be constructed so that the burden of proof is so high that it takes days to get an arrest warrant for a violent offender, who in the time it takes to generate a warrant, commits more violent crimes against innocent individuals.

In this example the law becomes so careful to protect the rights of the individual, that it renders law enforcement as impotent when it comes to taking action based on a potentially limited body of evidence.

And yet, if you reduce the burden of proof, you run the risk of issuing a premature arrest warrant, for a potentially innocent individual.

I was involved with a case that went exactly like that; an individual committed a kidnapping and rape, and while the warrant was being drawn up (over weeks, not 24 hours), the perpetrator bludgeoned a girl to death with a brick. It was a tragic case when the guy was a known violent offender, with witness and evidence, still roaming around my neighborhood committing violent crimes.

Anyway, while there are people who are zealous about politics and legal arguments for the second amendment, and I am certainly not a zealot.

But I do believe that there are those who would support limiting or eliminating our right to bear arms, and often the same liberal agenda supports laws that bind law enforcement so much so that criminals are allowed to run free while LEOs constantly criticised for doing the best they can, day in and day out.

The constant criticism in the media against LEOs is what I find as disgusting.

That is where I was coming from.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Well, somebody who read my companion piece in the Conservative Firing Line apparently didn't take it too well:
Dave Workman

Here's the piece they didn't like. The comment is clear at the bottom.
Armed citizens made a difference in 2017

Dave, it was probably AG Ferggy, he gets his panties in a bunch over nothing. He needs to be RECALLED!!!

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I'm sure we are on the same side, so I'm not gonna split hairs over my narrow-minded definition of utilitarianism....and your reality .

But I will question the application of the law...

The law as an End?

or

The law as a Means?

I for one do not care for what has essentially become the same as a "yellow light traffic citation" in our current society; High Uncertainty Avoidance.....issuing fines and or imprisonment for what could of happened...and for the greater good.....

Thanks.