Armed Citizens make a difference

[Seraphim38]

now there is a start of an interesting conversation.

The movie Minority Report is an excellent philosopical approach to the what could have happen issue, as it relates to policing.

I have little interest in fines and imprisonment for what could have happened. I don't think that is what the law was created for. The only area where this does find viability is with laws relating to criminal conspiracy; where individuals are conspiring together to commit a heinous crime. They obviously don't have to go through with the final, massive act of violence in order for the conspiracy to be illegal.

I don't see the laws as an End, as you put it, but as a vehicle enacted to protect both the sanctity of a civilization, and the freedoms of the individual.

Anyway, I don't want to get too far from the original thread topic, which is both interesting and valuable. I hope Dave keeps it up.

 

[Goosebrown]

Did you know that conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony?

 

[Seraphim38]

LOL...I can't say I am up to speed on the levels of each individual crime, in the RCW. It all used to be fresher in my mind, when I studied it.

 

[Inquisitor]

Thank you for posting that. I found it interesting that:

• Private citizen justifiable homicide numbers were 64% of the number of justifiable homicides by law enforcement. i would have thought that law enforcement commit far more justifiable homicides, but I guess that justifiable homicides by citizens are likely to be covered far less in the press than those committed by law enforcement
• The ratio of handgun usage vs. rifle and shotgun also surprised me. Citizense were 20 times more likely to use a handgun, while LEOs were only 6 times more likely to use a handgun. And yet LEOs walk around with pistols every day and only use rifles in felony / violent crime interventions
• If there are 276 instances in one year, against 16 million estimated licensed firearm owners, it means one's chance is 1 in 58,000 of using a firearm in a justifiable homicide situation, inside of one year. That excludes justifiable use of force that did not result in a death; that would be more likely, and would be a higher likelihood of occurrence

This data is almost a year old though; I would like to see data from 2017, though I wouldn't expect it to vary significantly from the multi-year trend that the prior data demonstrates.

Numbers:
There are an estimated 1 million sworn law enforcement officers (+/- 100,000).
There are an estimated 16. 1 million CCW permit holders.
There are an estimated 110 million firearm owners.

Justifiable homicide by civilians can actually be by all 110 million not just CCW holders.

 

[PaulB47]

"How can a basic RIGHT be taken away?"

This is a question that should call into question the whole concept of rights, yet it doesn't for some reason. Why? Because we are talking about faith, religion.

Rights are an idea that came into existence some time in the 17th century, or maybe a bit earlier, and were used to press a claim against those in the ruling class. They didn't have much connection to reality, but might still have been a useful tool back then. Of course these days it's been co-opted by government, who claim the mantle of protecting our rights. It's all nonsense when you realize government is what we need protection from.

Rights don't exist. What keeps us armed is not a right, not a part of a constitution that is mostly ignored, not the courts, etc. What keeps us armed is determination on our part to not be disarmed, and fear among the ruling class that they will end up hanging from ropes if they try confiscation - or at least that the politicians in question will be voted out of office next election.