Who Chose Fat Elvis As Our Spokesman? Salem Rally 01-19-14 :/

[OLDNEWBIE]

Young kids in crowds are just a general PITA anyway. Love having them but they do limit me in more ways than one. Can't wait till they are a bit older and more independent but then I guess I've got a whole new set of problems!

 

[oli700]

yeah, to be honest the first Rally was awesome but the folks who African carried were in effect sticking the muzzle in the face of every kid 3 feet tall and below....if I had my kid there I would have had him on my shoulders the entire time, some parents might not have noticed or cared but I wouldnt want my boy to get Joe Poked in the forehead personally. I did pack African at this one but gave wide birth to all the children, and a big friendly smile

 

[U201491]

earth to all, there are liberal/progressives who also support 2a.... nobody seems to ever believe this but it's a fact and if 2a groups accepted this fact our ranks would grow.

uhh not so much.......

Even if there were a few, would they also hold up and stand strong for ALL of the rest of the Constitution ?

Not so much :-/

 

[WhyteCheddar]

That goes both ways. This rally isn't about religion so how about the religious people respect the rights of those that don't want to hear their sermon?

See my post about the event taking on the flavor of those who did the work to put it together.
You are a very resourceful person, I have no doubt you could do a great job at putting together such an event that was satisfying to both sides of this discussion.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

"It is never too late to give up your prejudices"
― Henry David Thoreau

It's impossible to know how every individual in this nation feels based on a stereotype that the media perpetuates. Many in the service right now would be considered "lefties" or "liberals" and their butts are on the line for the constitution just as much are the righties in the military.

As Darwin said,
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved..."

 

[SunTzu]

at this point I'd pay money to see you two throw down

me vs Elvis? i actually don't hate the guy... more like: "well bless his little heart isn't he just precious" ...now can we please get some more well-balanced speakers next time? the title of the thread and the tone i used is part frustration/rant and also part marketing.... with a title like that everyone just had to read it!

i suppose if he really did demand satisfaction we could settle it like men with a good ole' fisticuffs but honestly he looks to be in very poor health. i don't say that to be an A-hole either i really mean the guy could go afib/chf at any moment.

 

[SunTzu]

uhh not so much.......

Even if there were a few, would they also hold up and stand strong for ALL of the rest of the Constitution ?

Not so much :-/

left wing vs right wing politics is a crowd of people standing in a cesspool trying to convince each other that the S___ isn't as deep in their respective side of the pond. those who fervently believe in one side or the other don't seem to see the bigger picture.

furthermore, there's many people who think for themselves and decide each issue separately. example: a progressive catholic who is pro-life. another example: a young person who supports 2a but is tired of getting ripped off by our country's broken private healthcare system and supports reform.

so, live in darkness and tell me that the two above examples just don't exist. and because you refuse to accept it you wouldn't see those people even if they were right in front of you.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

People, it's time for you to understand something. The number of people who vote a certain way in an election determine what laws get passed. The point of a rally is to gain votes. You can hold events that reinforce your Conservative, religious, right-wing agenda and slap each other on the back and high-five 'til hell freezes over, and what you'll end up with is no guns. The person you need is not the Conservative, religious, right-winger. He's going to vote pro-gun no matter what. What you need are soccer moms and college students, and middle of the road white collar dudes. Changing their minds is a tall order, and you can't do it by thumbing your nose at them and saying that if they don't like your Conservative politics and right-wing religion they can take a hike. The game is called politics, and it's all about getting along and forming alliances with people you have every reason to otherwise despise.

This little scenario in Salem last Sunday probably felt real good to the 300 people who were there. Given enough publicity the Confederate flag, the bikers, the open carry, and the hallucinatory religion would have put off many thousands of people. The net effect would have been negative. The only saving grace was that there were more important things going on that day that the media devoted all its time to. I can turn a blind eye to it, and go on about my business trying to persuade my friends and neighbors that guns are OK. But being in the same camp as fat Elvis and the Confederate flag waver makes it more difficult. We are our own worst enemy. We seem to think that because everyone who disagrees with us is wrong, they don't matter, and we've somehow won. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those people who disagree with us DO matter. They are voters. Many of them love and support the Constitution and grew up with guns in the family. If you tell them they are sub-human if they don't vote for Rick Santorum, they are not going to vote with you on guns. It's that simple.

We need a rally that features coherent, focused speakers, who concentrate on the realities of gun legislation, the crime and homicide numbers, and the history of gun registration and gun control. We need to convince those soccer moms that guns are not inherently evil, and not dangerous. We need to convince the man on the street that guns are not the root cause of our violent society. We can't do that by representing gun rights people as being violent, in your face, loud mouthed, self-congratulatory know-it-alls. Unless we wise up pretty quickly we're going down, folks.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

And instead of attending self-congratulatory rallies with people like fat Elvis and the Confederate flag waver, what I do is sit down with people who gasp involuntarily at the sight of a handgun, and calmly show them what it's about: How to safely handle it, unload it, load it again, care for it, and use it. I did this for an emergency room nurse who wanted to get over her fear of guns and the people who like them. She was visibly shaken when I produced a .357 Magnum revolver, and it took a lot of coaxing to get her to touch it. When I was done an hour later, she was loading and unloading, and practice firing it. She may never buy herself a handgun, but she isn't irrationally afraid of them anymore. She might even vote with us next time the stuff flies through the wind turbine.

 

[tiggers97]

so, why doesn't nwfa put together a PAC, rally, event etc for gun rights?
Yes and no. someone identifying a personal religious affiliation is tolerable.
but seriously Elvis-Spirit-Vision and lengthy sermons send the wrong message entirely. and, Elvis spouting off about Giant-Angel-Spirit-Visions will alienate a lot of christians AND paint us all as tinfoil-hatters.

earth to all, there are liberal/progressives who also support 2a.... nobody seems to ever believe this but it's a fact and if 2a groups accepted this fact our ranks would grow.

While it is easy to arm-chair the event and offer constructive criticism, I do have to say "thank you" to the organizers for putting in the effort to put the event together. Talk is one thing, but putting the effort into making something happen is another.

But (always a butt), there is much room for improvement. I fee like the advertising for this event was barley a degree above passing the word when walking by the water cooler. I started the rally thread because, after a week or two of hearing about it, didn't see anything here on one of the most active NW firearm sites. Heck, there wasn't even an official flier until less than a week before the event. I get the feeling that the actual event organizer(s?) are a rather small group. I have a similar feeling last years event was organized in a similar fashion, but there was also a much higher public awareness at the time as well that drew in the thousands.

And while I can appreciate and admire the rallies drive to make something happen, divide up the work next time and don't feel you have to do it all yourself! Have an individual/team devoted to specific tasks so it can be done well: team for communication, team for event setup, team for speakers, team for event activities and booths (activism, how to contact your rep and send a message in less than 5 minute or between commercial breaks, etc). Heck, even a team to investigate the efficacy and probability of that 4600'ish recall number (attempt, petition fulfilled, and/or going to the ballot) I keep hearing about.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

The "Dream Team" of speakers at the next rally would be a couple of LGBT types, young single Moms, minorities etc.! The dream crowd would avoid Rebel flags and signs about Kenya etc. and focus on the immediate issue. A lot more women of all ages would really get headlines. Chest thumping might have it's place one day sooner than you think and the flag to fly then will be Old Glory upside down. Until that day these distractions alienate a lot of people.
I know there are gays who own weapons. Maybe they have never been invited?

 

[SunTzu]

The "Dream Team" of speakers at the next rally would be a couple of LGBT types, young single Moms, minorities etc.! The dream crowd would avoid Rebel flags and signs about Kenya etc. and focus on the immediate issue. A lot more women of all ages would really get headlines. Chest thumping might have it's place one day sooner than you think and the flag to fly then will be Old Glory upside down. Until that day these distractions alienate a lot of people.
I know there are gays who own weapons. Maybe they have never been invited?

that's an idea worth doing a feasibility study on but it may be a little extreme to implement now.

Professional example of proper 2a marketing from daniel defense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fweNbUYzrY

let's think marketing people...
real-world example:
on the KATU News Segment on the rally (in addition to Elvis) they very briefly interviewed a man with his wife and young children... that won a ton of viewer credibility because wife, kids and man were all dressed sensibly and looked happy and well-adjusted. which speaks louder than any words ever could. -> normal people with families and kids support gun rights. that would really cause soccer-moms and dads with desk jobs to see gun rights as very reasonable.
imagine alcohol commercials.. they don't say, "buy this drink and you'll get sexy ladies & make lifelong friends" but on a meta-level that's what they're actually communicating. how? by showing sexy ladies drinking the product and showing friends toasting to the good life etc.... conversely, showing people fat elvis isn't going to inspire others to emulate that person's beliefs and behaviors. other examples involve using humor etc.

btw folks i do work on marketing campaigns as a large part of my career

 

[U201491]

left wing vs right wing politics is a crowd of people standing in a cesspool trying to convince each other that the S___ isn't as deep in their respective side of the pond. those who fervently believe in one side or the other don't seem to see the bigger picture.

furthermore, there's many people who think for themselves and decide each issue separately. example: a progressive catholic who is pro-life. another example: a young person who supports 2a but is tired of getting ripped off by our country's broken private healthcare system and supports reform.

so, live in darkness and tell me that the two above examples just don't exist. and because you refuse to accept it you wouldn't see those people even if they were right in front of you.

Preservation of the entire US Constitution is where the end fight will be. The 2nd is the primary tool to keep that document whole and healthy.
It is what the 2nd Amendment was designed to do.
We cannot have it half healthy, it has to be in its prime.

To vote for anyone that will trample the constitution and then say they are pro gun is 100% counter productive. It has preserved the freedoms of this country pushing toward the 300 yr mark and we have to get it there.

 

[SunTzu]

Preservation of the entire US Constitution is where the end fight will be. The 2nd is the primary tool to keep that document whole and healthy.
It is what the 2nd Amendment was designed to do.
We cannot have it half healthy, it has to be in its prime.
To vote for anyone that will trample the constitution and then say they are pro gun is 100% counter productive. It has preserved the freedoms of this country pushing toward the 300 yr mark and we have to get it there.

preaching about the constitution etc may be "correct" but that's like trying to bang a girl when you haven't even got over being tongue-tied yet. first step is to break out of the mold. after people let their guards down a bit and realize 2a isn't evil they'll be able to discover what 2a and the rest of the bill of rights actually provides for them.... or we can just be left in the "friend-zone or creepy-zone" demanding people suck on our "rights".

 

[sailorfej]

Hi Folks,

So at the rally like several others on here, I was unhappy with some of the speakers and some of the topics that were brought up, indeed I am as opposed to some of the statements and rhetoric that came from top step as I am to the some of the statements and rhetoric that come from the anti-gun crowd.

That being said, I am not going to complain about the speakers or what they said, in fact I want thank all of them for their effort.

Why? Well because more than two weeks ago, on the Facebook page for the rally I noticed that Miranda (one of the nice PURPLE ladies, and one of the organizers of the rally) asked for volunteers to sign up to speak at the rally, and I did NOT volunteer to speak. Now considering that all the speakers had wrapped up by 2, and the rally was originally supposed to go to 4, I am guessing that they had lots of empty slots on the speaker list. So for my part at least I feel it would be a little bit churlish of me to complain that my view point wasn't represented by the speakers, when I had the opportunity to volunteer to speak and I didn't take it.

Now some of you are undoubtedly ready to pounce on the keyboard, "BUT I DON'T GET ON FACEBOOK", well I am pretty sure most of us knew OFF was involved, I am sure an email to Kevin could of got you on the list, for that matter a little reading about the 2013 rally, or a little googling would have led you to the organizers as well.

It is definitely true that this thing could have been better organized and better publicized than it was, on the other hand I am pretty sure everybody involved with this thing is a volunteer and I am certain that they won't turn up their noses at an offer to assist. For that matter, for those of you who think that the choice of dates was lousy, maybe the organizers would be open to additional rally's on other dates if they had some help.

Just my two cents

 

[U201491]

preaching about the constitution etc may be "correct" but that's like trying to bang a girl when you haven't even got over being tongue-tied yet. after people let their guards down a bit and realize 2a isn't evil they'll be able to discover what 2a and the rest of the bill of rights actually provides for them.... or we can just be left in the "friend-zone or A-hole-zone" demanding people suck on our "rights".

You are somewhat correct, but you will never get most "progressives" to ever see that.
Their goal is to transform this country to their country. The left is set in its ways, and all an attempt to swing them over will do will make you and all of the right vulnerable to more and more dangerous subversion.

You cannot teach rattlers to not bite. It is in their nature.

I have learned this over many decades. Believe me I have tried since the 60's and have come to the hard cold conclusion that unless a leftist actually becomes a victim and it can be shown to them that what they live as resulted in that, they will not change.

Many, even though you show them that they could have avoided being a victim are still to thick headed to get through to. They will follow the next lemming right over the cliff.

And simply they will never give you 1 thing without taking away 3.

 

[SunTzu]

Hi Folks,

So at the rally like several others on here, I was unhappy with some of the speakers and some of the topics that were brought up, indeed I am as opposed to some of the statements and rhetoric that came from top step as I am to the some of the statements and rhetoric that come from the anti-gun crowd.

That being said, I am not going to complain about the speakers or what they said, in fact I want thank all of them for their effort.

i agree we all need to sign up as speakers. one of the best possible solutions is to simply have reasonable, levelheaded speakers sign up in numbers to simply outnumber the fringe Elvis' etc. this was my first rally so until sunday i didn't even know such a problem existed (but in hindsight i should have known).

 

[SunTzu]

You are somewhat correct, but you will never get most "progressives" to ever see that.

The Solution For Radicals (Feinstein/Bloomberg)
here's an image i just made for example {captioned images like that (called memes) are free to make and they can spread like wildfire across facebook reaching thousands of people in a day... all for free}:

we'll never convert feinstein or bloomberg and we don't need to. the best cure for feinstein/bloomberg is to make them look like fanatics who are bent on an unrealistic agenda. this is done through mocking propaganda and by showing the world that the other side's stereotype accusations against us are false. then, we make them get angry and show everyone just how unbalanced they really are. Game, Set, Match.
Here's a video example from someone else:

For The Rest:
we only need to convert some of the "regular people" in the middle and a few of the people who just don't really understand the issues in order to achieve our goal of protecting 2a.

we already own rural areas, small towns, conservative christians. most people aren't radical liberals, most people are peter and louis griffin or the simpons and those people just go with whatever sounds reasonable and they don't think too much about it.... beer-sports, lattes-people magazine.

 

[U201491]

The Solution For Radicals (Feinstein/Bloomberg)
here's an image i just made for example {captioned images like that (called memes) are free to make and they can spread like wildfire across facebook reaching thousands of people in a day... all for free}:
View attachment 77158
we'll never convert feinstein or bloomberg and we don't need to. the best cure for feinstein/bloomberg is to make them look like fanatics who are bent on an unrealistic agenda. this is done through mocking propaganda and by showing the world that the other side's stereotype accusations against us are false. then, we make them get angry and show everyone just how unbalanced they really are. Game, Set, Match.
Here's a video example from someone else:

For The Rest:
we only need to convert some of the "regular people" in the middle and a few of the people who just don't really understand the issues in order to achieve our goal of protecting 2a.

we already own rural areas, small towns, conservative christians. most people aren't radical liberals, most people are peter and louis griffin or the simpons and those people just go with whatever sounds reasonable and they don't think too much about it.... beer-sports, lattes-people magazine.

1/2

The first half is great. They are the radicals.
But unless you can provide more freebies and benefits than the government is determined to give them you waste your breath and time. They either want a free ride or all the control.

 

[stryker9]

You can't worry about those who consider themselves "progressives". They are just as stubborn as we are. Most people sitting at home watching the news don't consider themselves as "anything". Those are the votes we need.