So, next year you are planning on stepping up and doing some organizing? I may not have liked everything that was said or all of the speakers either, but then again I didn't give up my free time to help organize it either.
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Who Chose Fat Elvis As Our Spokesman? Salem Rally 01-19-14 :/
- Thread Starter SunTzu
- Start date
So, next year you are planning on stepping up and doing some organizing? I may not have liked everything that was said or all of the speakers either, but then again I didn't give up my free time to help organize it either.
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there you go friend, good on you
and it needs to be broke up regionally, I tried to spatter my region last year .....I was so sure I would be welcomed with open arms at all the ranges, gun shops, surplus outlets.......nope, they were afraid enough to lose a sale that they didn't want to offend anyone they said no, the surplus guys could only talk about the no smoking rules being pushed and didn't really know the issues, I wanted to just explode....thought I should hit every power pole and everything that would take a staple with a flyer....but didn't think that was the answer either, frustration set in.
I like this site, I like most of the people. This site doesn't like to step on toes and that's usually a good business practice, this sight also believes in censorship and it makes me wonder bubblegum, bubblegum, bubblegum
your a natural, you are describing ICS, not only is it for an escalating disaster,emergency, incident it can be used to plan things before they happen like parades and such
command
operations
finance
logistics
plans
Plans and logistics being the big section for something like this
appreciate the heads up on the rally by the way, I was wondering.....and this as close to social media as I get
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Sun Tzu: "Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."......and that was just off the top of my head
One would think that gun and rifle clubs, gun stores, and sporting goods stores would all be behind a group effort amongst gun owners to work together to protect our rights to gun ownership.
Here's what I propose.
Let's discuss what our "dream" rally would have at it... and then go about making it happen as a community.
By that I mean, let's plan what the rally should have... Who we'd want as speakers (not "who", just what sort), what sort of draws we'd have at one to bring people there, the sorts of events, Where we'd want to have it, when it would happen, and the WHY of the rally, what we'd want the rally to accomplish
1. Who
2. What draw's
3. Where
4. When
5. Why
I'd suggest the following.
1. I'd want a mix of people to speak. I'd want the Rally to invite
a. Sympathetic law makers invited to discuss why they support gun ownership and how as citizens we can organize and mobilize our own communities to push pro gun legislation and push back against anti gunners.
b. Law enforcement and military/ ex-mil personnel who can relate real world events where gun ownership helped save people's lives and who can talk about how to positively present gun ownership as a social RESPONSIBILITY to help protect each other... not as some fringe wacky hobby.
c. Professionals in the industry to talk about new guns and new products that
d. Some entertainment to help break it up. No! They won't be asked to speak, unless they're Ted Nugent of course... and provided he's calm and understands we're trying to present a professional and serious face on the whole gun ownership thing.
2. What: Draws
a. Bar-b-que or general picnic type food. (which would also set the venue to a large park or similar or would require food trucks)
b. All gun clubs/ ranges send reps to the event with fliers and a BIG map showing their location and FREE range passes for new gun owners if they bring a friend. (Now think about this... one of the best ways to help break down irrational fears of firearms is to put a gun in someone's hand and TEACH them how to use it safely and responsibly. If we give them a free pass to a gun range this is an investment by ranges or clubs to get new members, create a safer more educated gun community, and by requiring them to bring a friend... try and rope another person into the community and get them hooked on firearms sports.
c. Picnic type activities with prizes (pay it forward ppl)
d. Classes: gun safety, reloading, legal clinics, etc
3. Where... This would need to be somewhere central Like MaryMoore park or similar... not sure where I'd have it but as a first rally it'd need to be somewhere with lots of parking, lots of space, and easily gotten to.
4. When, Summer or late spring. We need to make a gun rally fun, open, cheerful, and most of all a community event where people aren't wearing heavy dour clothing. Show people that gun owners are just regular folk. Sunshine, warm weather, and a good reason to be outside and having fun make for a whole lot better turnout and a better image because it's hard for media types to show a sunny fun gathering as bad or whacky if you're in a sunny fun environment.
5. Why. Well I'd say a first time Rally for gun rights and mobilizing the gun community and recruiting new people should focus on IMAGE first, and asking ppl to sign up as a community organizer. Get people tools to start encouraging gun ownership in their own community and promoting gun safety. (get people into classes)
Maybe then we can get community colleges to offer a gun safety, reloading, and marksmanship set of classes that ppl can volunteer to teach... get a real grass roots thing going. Then once politicians see that the group is organizing and actually putting a voting block together, they'll start taking note and ask to speak to gatherings.
It's basically how other big community organizations get going. The elks started as a social group. I propose that if we really want gun owners to work together, we need to get a sense of community and brotherly love going on here. Make ownership a positive and responsible thing... not just a hobby and alter the whole image of gun owners as the fringe... Instead make it a thing of "I'm not owning to just protect me or my family, I'm owning responsibly and doing it to protect myself, my family, and my community from irresponsible ownership (untrained) and from external threats)
That's also how disciplined militias were historically formed. By getting people trained in the use of fire arms, establishing a sense of belonging to a group/community that needed to look out for each other... and then appealing to everyones sense of duty and teamwork.
Just my thoughts on this.
Here's what I propose.
Let's discuss what our "dream" rally would have at it... and then go about making it happen as a community.
By that I mean, let's plan what the rally should have... Who we'd want as speakers (not "who", just what sort), what sort of draws we'd have at one to bring people there, the sorts of events, Where we'd want to have it, when it would happen, and the WHY of the rally, what we'd want the rally to accomplish
1. Who
2. What draw's
3. Where
4. When
5. Why
I'd suggest the following.
1. I'd want a mix of people to speak. I'd want the Rally to invite
a. Sympathetic law makers invited to discuss why they support gun ownership and how as citizens we can organize and mobilize our own communities to push pro gun legislation and push back against anti gunners.
b. Law enforcement and military/ ex-mil personnel who can relate real world events where gun ownership helped save people's lives and who can talk about how to positively present gun ownership as a social RESPONSIBILITY to help protect each other... not as some fringe wacky hobby.
c. Professionals in the industry to talk about new guns and new products that
d. Some entertainment to help break it up. No! They won't be asked to speak, unless they're Ted Nugent of course... and provided he's calm and understands we're trying to present a professional and serious face on the whole gun ownership thing.
2. What: Draws
a. Bar-b-que or general picnic type food. (which would also set the venue to a large park or similar or would require food trucks)
b. All gun clubs/ ranges send reps to the event with fliers and a BIG map showing their location and FREE range passes for new gun owners if they bring a friend. (Now think about this... one of the best ways to help break down irrational fears of firearms is to put a gun in someone's hand and TEACH them how to use it safely and responsibly. If we give them a free pass to a gun range this is an investment by ranges or clubs to get new members, create a safer more educated gun community, and by requiring them to bring a friend... try and rope another person into the community and get them hooked on firearms sports.
c. Picnic type activities with prizes (pay it forward ppl)
d. Classes: gun safety, reloading, legal clinics, etc
3. Where... This would need to be somewhere central Like MaryMoore park or similar... not sure where I'd have it but as a first rally it'd need to be somewhere with lots of parking, lots of space, and easily gotten to.
4. When, Summer or late spring. We need to make a gun rally fun, open, cheerful, and most of all a community event where people aren't wearing heavy dour clothing. Show people that gun owners are just regular folk. Sunshine, warm weather, and a good reason to be outside and having fun make for a whole lot better turnout and a better image because it's hard for media types to show a sunny fun gathering as bad or whacky if you're in a sunny fun environment.
5. Why. Well I'd say a first time Rally for gun rights and mobilizing the gun community and recruiting new people should focus on IMAGE first, and asking ppl to sign up as a community organizer. Get people tools to start encouraging gun ownership in their own community and promoting gun safety. (get people into classes)
Maybe then we can get community colleges to offer a gun safety, reloading, and marksmanship set of classes that ppl can volunteer to teach... get a real grass roots thing going. Then once politicians see that the group is organizing and actually putting a voting block together, they'll start taking note and ask to speak to gatherings.
It's basically how other big community organizations get going. The elks started as a social group. I propose that if we really want gun owners to work together, we need to get a sense of community and brotherly love going on here. Make ownership a positive and responsible thing... not just a hobby and alter the whole image of gun owners as the fringe... Instead make it a thing of "I'm not owning to just protect me or my family, I'm owning responsibly and doing it to protect myself, my family, and my community from irresponsible ownership (untrained) and from external threats)
That's also how disciplined militias were historically formed. By getting people trained in the use of fire arms, establishing a sense of belonging to a group/community that needed to look out for each other... and then appealing to everyones sense of duty and teamwork.
Just my thoughts on this.
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I admire you proactive attitude, your willingness to find a solution and your typing skills lol.
I like your ideas but a website, imo, especially this one couldn't pull it off.
Other than a handful of people here, the majority can't seem to get over what you are wearing, whether you shave, if you are fat, what kind of AR/AK you invested in, what kind of truck you drive, what kind of sign you made......etc, etc.
There is no way they could pull off something like that successfully because in order to do so someone has to be in charge, that person needs to be respected and trusted and others need to have enough faith in that person to carry out things that they may not agree with based on the person calling the shots experience.
That can really only happen in a team that has been built up, one that knows each other thoroughly enough to trust each other even if they don't agree with each other for the good of the order, whoever owns this site would then be put under the electron microscope as people have done to the nice people who have organized the last two rallies
It would have to be done probably by an established organization that is used to each other's quirks, knows each others strengths and weaknesses, used to a team environment and has a built up trust .....I don't know how OFF is organized but that is the first organization that pops into my head that could possibly pull it off.
With things like this it is good to draw from everyone on the team but in order for it to truly succeed.....one has to accept that it is not a democracy, it is a hierarchy and you answer to me, I might not always be right but I am always your boss....I am speaking from experience on this one.....not impossible but not probable, it probably wouldn't gt past the planning cycle with strangers that have such a wide angle o how the perfect rally should look.......some don't think you should bring a spit wad shooter, some would march the streets with mounted weapons, some would have us all dress in suits and not allow anyone in that didn't, others would like to see everyone naked, some would want a little prayer, others would throw rotten tomatoes at them if they did......
If you all do under take this I do truly wish success, and I type this without any bad intentions or malice, just my observation and real world experience of organizing 25 to 1500 souls annually for one cause, sometimes multiple times a year, sometimes I am the one being organized, I know both sides of the coin
To both of you.
The single biggest obstacle you face is the same one the whole damn country faces and that will be APATHY. If not for apathy, this country would not have reached the disgusting state it is in now.
Apathy and diversion is why the turnout was where it was. Apathy that someone else would carry the ball and diversion by tv football.
No easy Or kind way to state it.
Until you can find a way to get people beyond that and set their azzes on fire, you wont change much.
Its at least a 50 yr old national disease. Its always, someone else will do it or "I'm too busy" with the toys or entertainment.
Find a cure for that and things will change for the better. :-/
The single biggest obstacle you face is the same one the whole damn country faces and that will be APATHY. If not for apathy, this country would not have reached the disgusting state it is in now.
Apathy and diversion is why the turnout was where it was. Apathy that someone else would carry the ball and diversion by tv football.
No easy Or kind way to state it.
Until you can find a way to get people beyond that and set their azzes on fire, you wont change much.
Its at least a 50 yr old national disease. Its always, someone else will do it or "I'm too busy" with the toys or entertainment.
Find a cure for that and things will change for the better. :-/
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yes sir, and I would like to throw complacency and laziness into your equation as well
Yep, goes hand in hand withit.
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Elvis is the guy in the background.
I agree with SunTzu. Not the time and place and certainly not the message a 2A rally should be sending.
Here's the above mentioned sign...
and some more random shots from the day...
HOLY CRAP!!!! With defeatist attitudes like that, please, PLEASE, don't post anymore on threads such as these ever again. HOLY CRAP!!!
Excellent Steven! There is an outline that could be used for a future rally. You know, you could call it something like a constitution rally? Cover the right to free speech, the right to bear arms, freedom of religion etc. I wish I had the brain to dive into something like this and help. I could be a "Grunt" though?
Don't let the negative people shut you down Steven, you've got a good start to something that could pay off for us in the future.
Mike
Well that right there is the nail head.
It's always that the solution requires someone to step up and lead.
They have to show that they have a plan, a well thought out and cohesive plan, and one that others would have confidence in that it would work. In short they have to promote a vision and a path to achieve that vision.
That's what separates leaders from the rest. they're willing to say "I have a dream" and offer it. (appropriate kudos to the honorable and beloved Dr Martin Luther King Jr)
If people see it, hear it, and believe it... they'll follow and make the vision a reality. But they have to see there's a path. History tells us that it just needs people to take that first step and join and walk it.
I hear you about apathy... but reading what I just wrote.. is there anything in it that you disagree with? Anything you'd change?Anything YOU would suggest.
If all you have is one person suggesting, and you're not offering suggestions or showing that you too would step up and sacrifice your free time to make an honorable goal you believe in a reality... then aren't YOU part of the problem too? Are you apathetic? Or do you want to be part of the solution?
My father... not my favorite person in the world to be honest.... had one thing he said that proved to be helpful throughout my life. If you see a problem, point it out... but be ready with a suggestion on how to fix it too. Otherwise you're wasting your time. I'm serious here, it's all well and good to say "you have to overcome apathy" but what about YOU? Are you willing to step up? I am.
Let's say you agreed with everything I listed.... would you be willing to spend your time being part of it? I'll tell you what. I would right now. I'll agree to spend my time to push this forward. I'll even put my money where my mouth is. I'd chip in $200.00 right now toward supplies to hold an event like this and let someone else who volunteers do all the buying or be the treasurer of that money. Why? Because I'm willing to trust another fellow gunner who volunteers his or her time to push this sort of thing forward. Hell I'll donate a firearm or a case or whatnot as a prize. I'll volunteer to teach reloading classes and donate materials too. Why? because I believe.
For me, gun ownership is a civic responsibility... it USED to be a civic responsibility for everyone not long ago. Every responsible adult owned a firearm... why? Because everyone KNEW that it was what an adult did and was prepared to do and everyone was exposed to them and were taught to respect, fear, and safely operate them. If we can re-establish this in the minds of adults and children in our own communities, we can regain the upper hand in this battle and crush anti gunners and make THEM be the fringe element. Then we can start talking about next steps.
I personally have a vision. I want to re-establish the rights of the citizenry to own whatever the heck we want to. The current version of the 2nd amendment has been infringed on too much. I don't believe we need to "protect our rights" I think we need to take our rights BACK. I think that we need to stop trying to hold our position and instead start advancing. We need to seize power back and the way to do so is by winning the hearts and minds of others, to enlighten them.
These silly rallys with divisive speakers... religious leaders and lampoonable figures... it needs to stop. We need to hear from respectable figures with stories. We need to have a MESSAGE and that message should be Gun ownership isn't a hobby, it isn't a way of life, it's a civic responsibility. We need to protect ourselves, and each other.
Here's the above mentioned sign...
That tree looks like someones head that has his finger in a light socket.
I still liked the sign though
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your wish is my command boss
That is painfully obvious with you lack of comprehension for the written word....good luck allMikej said:
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A lot of brainstorming on what would be good next time but an obvious lack of organizational or dare I say, "COMMUNITY ORGANIZER" type skills and money. How about instead of going big you go small?
Picture if you will a crowded park or other crowded open space. Suddenly a group of 20 or so "random" guys and gals kind of group together and make some commotion, maybe sing a patriotic song or recite the 2nd ammendment over and over. That's right, a flash mob! They could all have the same T-shirts with oust Prozanzski or something on them.
Suddenly a stereotypically dressed young man in a black trenchcoat comes up to the flash mob and points his finger at them like a hand gun and goes BANG, BANG, BANG as they drop to the ground in fake agony moaning etc.
The fake shooter runs away and the lone "survivor" is still standing and still reciting the 2nd A. surrounded by his fallen comrades.
The lone survivor could be holding a sign or have a different T-shirt with a clever ironic slogan on it like "I thought this was a gun free zone"
All this would be recorded for youtube of course. It sounds a bit corny but the left does this kind of stuff all the time.
Picture if you will a crowded park or other crowded open space. Suddenly a group of 20 or so "random" guys and gals kind of group together and make some commotion, maybe sing a patriotic song or recite the 2nd ammendment over and over. That's right, a flash mob! They could all have the same T-shirts with oust Prozanzski or something on them.
Suddenly a stereotypically dressed young man in a black trenchcoat comes up to the flash mob and points his finger at them like a hand gun and goes BANG, BANG, BANG as they drop to the ground in fake agony moaning etc.
The fake shooter runs away and the lone "survivor" is still standing and still reciting the 2nd A. surrounded by his fallen comrades.
The lone survivor could be holding a sign or have a different T-shirt with a clever ironic slogan on it like "I thought this was a gun free zone"
All this would be recorded for youtube of course. It sounds a bit corny but the left does this kind of stuff all the time.
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Although the video nearly made me throw up I see your point and I like it.
Use their own tactics against them.
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Corny is not the word that I would use for that video, but I take your point.
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I didn't read but half the first page.. perhaps this fellow is associated with "the church of elvis" (based in Portland) which is of course an absolute joke. If this is/was the case, he shouldn't have been allowed on stage with others of true cloth.
Dude... showing people getting shot.. even by a pretend firearm like a finger is NOT something that would aid a cause of promoting firearms and civic responsibility. All it does is show that if everyone owns them that a crazy person can go on a shooting spree and kill unarmed people.
If you wanted to make a point about the good gunners, you could have the "mad gunman" get gunned down by good citizens when he pulls his gun, thus protecting the unarmed before he has a chance to kill them.
But all in all it's STILL not much more than performance art... and I hate performance art.
Also something like this is kinda "hippy" if you ask me.
If you wanted to make a point about the good gunners, you could have the "mad gunman" get gunned down by good citizens when he pulls his gun, thus protecting the unarmed before he has a chance to kill them.
But all in all it's STILL not much more than performance art... and I hate performance art.
Also something like this is kinda "hippy" if you ask me.
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