White Teen Ignores all Police Officer Commands, and then Dies

[Cogs]

I didn't see anything different than the other videos we've seen in the recent past. Didn't notice, nor care, what color he was. I did notice all the stupid moves he made, like he was 'asking' or 'daring' for trouble. Noticed he kept reaching behind his back with his right hand. To me, that is a move to justify the first shots. Once down, pulling up his shirt and reaching underneath??? His fatal stupid move. They may have been able to rush him and pin him down, as soon as he hit the ground, but, you'd risk catching a bullet from another officer if they fired.

In a situation like that, or any of the others we've recently seen, I don't think skin color mattered much to a police officer.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I am not "picking" on anyone who responded to this thread.
But phrases like :"Stupid is as stupid does" or "Hand over the stupid prize." can come off as sounding unfeeling , uncaring or even arrogant.
Again I am not picking on anyone , nor saying that I am any better than anyone who has replied.

Can anyone here say that they have never made a "Stupid Choice" or earned a "Stupid Prize." ?
Bad choices were made in this story.
( one can even argue bad choices by both sides in this case.)
Bad choices led to Dylan's death.
One day your choices may be looked over as stupid or bad.
Hopefully , it won't be a choice that leads to your death.
Just saying be careful in what and how you comment on other peoples actions.
A person died in this story . People have to live with the fact that they killed someone. Families are hurting.
We need to be respectful of that.
Andy

Andy, you are a nice guy, caring and thoughtful.
I, in this instance, am truly uncaring, unfeeling and arrogant!
eF that little loser, I might add, that arrogant little loser!
Sure, I've made any number of stupid choices in my life.
But if it is forseen that I will only die by being aggressive and non compliant with the police. Well.....then I'm going to live about a thousand years!
I'm not saying we should execute stupid people! However, if they manage to accomplish it on they're own, too bad.

 

[dude young]

Pretty sure I heard him say, "I hate my f'in life" just before the first shots. Likely a disturbed individual. My question, no attempt at "less lethal" alternatives? There were at least two officers. One clearly had the kid covered with a pistol. Why didn't the other deploy a taser or rubber slugs in the shot gun?

Not just bad parenting here but I see bad policing as well.

 

[decklin]

I've patrolled some of the most dangerous streets in the world. I was Infantry.
Are you guys seriously trying to tell me that Fresno is more dangerous than Baqubah, Fallujah, Sadr City, Bagdahd, or any of the dozens of places I've been that you've never heard of?
If I did what these cops did I'd be in prison right now.
If you guys did what these cops did you'd be in prison.
Maybe this guy was mentally ill. Maybe he was high. Maybe, maybe, maybe...
The point is so many people immediately side with the officers regardless of any factual evidence.
As I said before all parties involved made mistakes. Now someone is dead and I cannot see a good reason for it.
I've been in situations surrounded by hundreds of pissed off people. We never shot anyone that didn't demonstrate clear hostile intent and was positively identified as a threat.
Our freedom depended on it.

 

[U8395279]

Before accusing me of being a cop hater or whatever else, let me point out that I almost always side with the LEOs. I always first put myself in their position. But when they're wrong, they're wrong.

Slippery slopes. Be careful how far you're ok with letting them go before requiring some accountability.

You are totally right here x2ndxall. This is a most slippery slope indeed.

People who do indeed ALWAYS side with LEO's, no matter what, are clearly biased. Cops are not Gods. They are not infallible. They are ordinary human beings. And just like everyone else, there are good ones, and there are unfortunately some bad ones too.

If cops can ALWAYS count on support, no matter what they do, then that sort of climate really helps to facilitate police abuse.
.

 

[U8395279]

Cops have stricter requirements for lethal force than Citizens do.
I don't have backup at my house.
As I said before there were two officers. Why didn't one use a Taser?

Actually, a cell phone video from a homeowner near the scene showed a wider angle, revealing that there were 4 officers present. The two you see were the two that were closest, and were the ones who fired. The other two officers restrained themselves, and did not shoot.

.

 

[wired]

Perhaps there was no pressing need to fire?

 

[U8395279]

Oh bs, unarmed people get lawfully shot and killed all the time by civilians. Just recently in Spokane a drunk kid got himself smoked trying to get into the house next door from his. No charges.

If someone is advancing toward a bunch of cops, guns drawn, looking like he wants to fight, reaching for something, it is reasonable to assume he is an imminent threat.

The presence of a knife or a firearm is one of, but not the only deciding factor in determining if a person has the means, or intent to cause bodily harm where deadly force would be justified.

That is such a totally bogus comparison that you have made here. These two situations could not be more different in nature.

In that anonymous case you mention ( which you have provided ZERO documentation or citations for ), the kid initiated the conflict, by entering someone else's home. He was the aggressor. In this case, it was the police who initiated the contact, because they were looking for an armed man.

Those are not similar scenarios at all.

.

 

[U8395279]

I didn't see anything different than the other videos we've seen in the recent past. Didn't notice, nor care, what color he was. I did notice all the stupid moves he made, like he was 'asking' or 'daring' for trouble. Noticed he kept reaching behind his back with his right hand. To me, that is a move to justify the first shots. Once down, pulling up his shirt and reaching underneath??? His fatal stupid move. They may have been able to rush him and pin him down, as soon as he hit the ground, but, you'd risk catching a bullet from another officer if they fired.

Oh come now, are you actually arguing that the officer could not have come forward to cuff him, because of fear of being shot by his fellow officers?

That does not seem like a legitimate excuse to me at all.

.

 

[slimmer13]

That is such a totally bogus comparison that you have made here. These two situations could not be more different in nature.

In that anonymous case you mention ( which you have provided ZERO documentation or citations for ), the kid initiated the conflict, by entering someone else's home. He was the aggressor. In this case, it was the police who initiated the contact, because they were looking for an armed man.

Those are not similar scenarios at all.

.

Well its not. Wired made the claim that if a citizen ever shot and killed an unarmed person, they would go to jail. I gave an instance off the top of my head that proves the point that that claim was false and that under certain circumstances, deadly force is lawful against an unarmed person.

<broken link removed>

 

[wired]

Well its not. Wired made the claim that if a citizen ever shot and killed an unarmed person, they would go to jail. I gave an instance off the top of my head that proves the point that that claim was false and that under certain circumstances, deadly force is lawful against an unarmed person.

<broken link removed>

Citizen? Cops are citizens too and if they cant handle the job without opening fire on their fellow citizens for not following all of their COMMANDS then they shouldnt be on the job. If they open fire on their fellow citizens no no damn good reason then they should be jailed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Andy, you are a nice guy, caring and thoughtful.
I, in this instance, am truly uncaring, unfeeling and arrogant!
eF that little loser, I might add, that arrogant little loser!
Sure, I've made any number of stupid choices in my life.
But if it is forseen that I will only die by being aggressive and non compliant with the police. Well.....then I'm going to live about a thousand years!
I'm not saying we should execute stupid people! However, if they manage to accomplish it on they're own, too bad.

Well it is always good to say what you mean Sgt.Nambu.
And its good to know , where I stand with you ... LOL
I wish you a happy thousand years !
No hard feelings from me.
Andy

 

[x2ndxall]

I've patrolled some of the most dangerous streets in the world. I was Infantry.
Are you guys seriously trying to tell me that Fresno is more dangerous than Baqubah, Fallujah, Sadr City, Bagdahd, or any of the dozens of places I've been that you've never heard of?
If I did what these cops did I'd be in prison right now.
If you guys did what these cops did you'd be in prison.
Maybe this guy was mentally ill. Maybe he was high. Maybe, maybe, maybe...
The point is so many people immediately side with the officers regardless of any factual evidence.
As I said before all parties involved made mistakes. Now someone is dead and I cannot see a good reason for it.
I've been in situations surrounded by hundreds of pissed off people. We never shot anyone that didn't demonstrate clear hostile intent and was positively identified as a threat.
Our freedom depended on it.

Over and over brother.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Oh, I'm not siding with the officers! I'm siding against stupid, little, shat heads! Sick of them, I personally don't need 'em, don't care a whit about them!

decklin, I'm glad that you served, and very glad that you survived!
But! That you spent your career on street patrol is one of the tragedys of this (L word that we can't say) age!
The military should go in, kill people and break things until the enemy gives up or collapses! Then go home until the next arrogant, s head, country requests a repeat! Collateral damage my patooty! Rebuild the enemy, same patooty!

See how this is a common theme with me!
I should, perhaps, change my handle to, Capt. Unfriendly!

Andy, you stand aces with me! You too decklin!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

An ounce of communication could have prevented that pound of lead.

I only heard about this story yesterday. So the reason for the felony stop was that he "fit the description" of someone who was walking around with a rifle. The teen probably thought that he was getting hassled by the cops for doing doughnuts in the dirt lot and now his bad day went from harmlessly blowing off steam to guns drawn and get out of the car. The teen went from having a bad day to this is not an ordinary "broken windows" enforcement stop, oh crud I am going to jail, my truck is getting impounded, this will cost so much money that I don't have, my parents are going to kill me, "I hate my life".

The dash cam and unedited beginning of the encounter needs to be released. If the cops would have communicated WHY they were pulling him over, then the kid may not have flipped out. "Driver we have a report of someone that matches your description walking around with a rifle. We need to verify that you have no firearms in the truck or on your persons. Follow our command so we can clear this up without anyone getting shot."

 

[wired]

Or just shoot the kid for getting out of his truck and being pissed. Hopefully the officers involved get fired and their asses sued off at the minimum and do a few years in Folsom or Chino on the high side. Maybe they'll meet some new friends there.

 

[Brutus57]

I don't know this kid, but I do know some pretty cool and successful folks that had eff'ed up as teenagers, survived their own stupidity and turned out to be better than solid citizens.
and a short story:
I am just glad the cop who showed up to investigate a 12 YO shooting birds in his dad's berry field was calm, cool and collected. This from about 40 yards range, told the kid to come over and talk to him. The kid had the .22 rifle in the crook of his arm muzzle down as he'd been taught, chamber empty. When the kid got to the berry shed he started to lean the rifle up against the shed....cop said no please bring it here muzzle down. Kid slow walks another 25 yards over to the officer. Yes, the officer had his hand on his revolver but talked calmly.

Officer friendly confiscated .22. Took the 12 YO downtown, took his statement, called mom and pop, took the kid for a ride to show him bullet holes in bank 2 miles away, explained to him the seriousness of the situation then took him home.
True story. Cop lived, kid lived, parents embarrassed and older brother's friend 19 or 20 YO and who handed the .22 to the kid when he spotted the cruiser a couple blocks over and then hid in the bathroom was never allowed to come over again.

Almost 50 years later it is a different world today, and not so much in a good way.

Brutus Out

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I don't know why it's so hard. Right or wrong, the people with the guns pointed at you make the rules. If you don't want them to use them, follow the rules.

As the parent of a mildly autistic child I can tell you why. It takes them a few extra seconds to process the information, and when the cops start yelling it becomes even more confusing to them. The people who I employ and whose salaries I pay to PROTECT my family need to understand that there are people out there with sensory processing issues, hearing issues, and comprehension issues. Those people should be able to walk our streets without being executed by trigger happy cops. We need to modify police training and police culture. Our streets are not a war zone and anyone not in uniform is not automatically out to kill them. These are NOT emergency situations until the police make them so. The police are the ones doing the escalating in many of these shootings due to their militarization. It's as if they are trained to panic.

 

[nammac]

As the parent of a mildly autistic child I can tell you why. It takes them a few extra seconds to process the information, and when the cops start yelling it becomes even more confusing to them. The people who I employ and whose salaries I pay to PROTECT my family need to understand that there are people out there with sensory processing issues, hearing issues, and comprehension issues. Those people should be able to walk our streets without being executed by trigger happy cops. We need to modify police training and police culture. Our streets are not a war zone and anyone not in uniform is not automatically out to kill them. These are NOT emergency situations until the police make them so. The police are the ones doing the escalating in many of these shootings due to their militarization. It's as if they are trained to panic.

Kudos! So very true... My youngest daughter is a high functioning Autistic child. Very intelligent, very happy but not always social.

If you bark an order at her with any level of authority in your voice she will lock up and begin to shut down. She has every right to feel safe out in society, not worrying about being gunned down by the police because she doesn't respond immediately and in the manner they want.

Personally, I think there are less lethal ways to handle an interaction. As has been said, if a citizen performs in such a manner, we would be jailed...

Read a lot of back and forth in this thread. Unfortunately I see some members attacking others for their opinion of what happened...

What happened should not have, two factors... A teenager who didn't comply given the gravity of the situation and police who are way too jittery...

 

[Ura-Ki]

I see another SERIOUS problem here, More then one person in authority shouting commands! From a Military stand point, this was/Is a sure fire way to get people killed, Period!!! I see this time and time again with Law Enforcement, I have seen it up close and personal! It usually ends up confusing the hell out of folks, and ends up complicating things! I will not comment on this, other then to say, there needs to be a serious inquiry into this shoot, and the public needs to be informed of the outcome!