White Teen Ignores all Police Officer Commands, and then Dies

[SHPD_Retired]

Looks like suicide by cop.

 

[Member 5605]

I honestly think that all of you who are saying that this was suicide by cop are wrong.

The teen did not plan to cause the confrontation. He just happened to be in the area where police were searching for an armed man. That is just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He also had no idea that the police were looking for an armed man. He probably thought that they were just harassing him over his driving. That could have potentially made him angry. Or maybe he was just simply having a real bad day, and was thus in a foul mood.

You cannot expect all 19 year olds to think rationally. Many that age, and even well into their 20's, can have a very defiant attitude towards authority.

That is all that I see here: a teen who thinks he is a badass, and will not kowtow to the police.

Here is a selfie of him from his Facebook page. He looks a bit surly to me. He may consider himself to be a "tough guy".

I have no idea what that tattoo on his chest is, though.


View attachment 303894

The tattoo is Yamaha logo.

So what would have happened to us if we did the same thing trying to neutralize an attacker and there was cell phone video of it?

We would be locked up.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Hard video to watch and a sad story.
What if the kid was immature?
What if the kid was under stress?
What if ...
We can "What if" this story till the cows come home and still not know anything.
Dylan is dead and he is the only one who could tell us why he did what he did.
What I do know is:
That folks do weird things under stress.
Bodies behave differently when shot.
In these times it is best to comply with whatever command you are given by law enforcement , even if you are not committing a unlawful act.
( I'm not saying that we should allow the police to do what they want. I'n referring here to a "normal" stop like a traffic stop , if you fit the description of a person of interest , or asking who you are or what you are doing when out in the wee hours etc ... )

I find it interesting that there is no huge outcry over this shooting. No rallies , no riots etc ...
I dislike playing the "Race card" , but I can't help but wonder if the fact that he was white , is a factor in this case.
I also do not like the idea of being manipulated by the media and I feel that this is often the case in shootings.
Two tools of manipulation is either constant coverage of a event or a lack of coverage.
Both of which I think are used by the media to further an agenda which may or may not be beneficial to me.
( All of which might make for a different thread ... )
In any case, the lack of coverage for whatever reason is interesting.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

Police are a fact of life, and though I know some would like to see them gone altogether, I don't see that happening anytime down the road. So, we have to figure out how we can work together to keep the peace between us and them. Both sides need to follow the law, and both sides need to be held accountable if they do not.

I have a feeling what happened with this kid may have gone down differently 10, 20 years ago. Most likely, we would have seen something more like a Rodney King incident where the cops get this guy subdued and maybe wail on his a$$ for a while to teach him a lesson. That likely would have been it. Times seemed to have changed now. Cops know they are targets, and civilians, well, many of them think they are targets of the police. Tempers are flared. Nerves are on edge. Any situation, it seems, can escalate to a deadly incident for either side.

With that in mind, the best thing is that the civilians follow the simply commands of the officers AND the officers show respect and courtesy to the civilians. There really is no reason both cannot come out of these types of interactions unscathed. In fact, it happens thousands of times all over the country every single day, without something like this happening.

Police officers have a very hard job. They are not mental health counselors, they are simply there to enforce the law. If they perceive someone is a threat to them or someone else, then they are expected to stop that threat. Since each officer is going to respond based on their training and their personal abilities and emotions, any one event can go differently just based on who is responding. I do think most cops are good people that do what they do because they believe it's the right thing. I'd like to think that most civilians are good as well. But it's hard to form a comprehensive profile of anyone from a 1-2 minute, high stress interaction.

Looking at the video, I have concerns for all involved. The kid refused to follow simple commands. The officers shot, in my opinion, more than necessary. But I wasn't there and the video doesn't even tell the whole story. Was this guy, as others have suggested, high? drunk? mentally handicapped? or just an a$$hole? Were these cops on edge due to the latest attacks/threats, including ambushes? Whatever it was, some professionals are going to have to do some serious review into what happened and, if necessary, press charges, if they are warranted. Being an a$$hole is no reason to be killed, and being a cop is no reason to be free from prosecution, if called for.

But again, the best thing, at this time, is to just be compliant with officers. And hopefully the officers will give you the respect that comes with that compliance. We've worked together for many years with only a small minority of incidents turning out like this. We would probably all do well to remember that these events, while high profile, aren't representative of the majority of interactions that happen every day.

There was a time in my life I considered becoming a police officer, all I can think right now is that I'm glad I didn't, because I'd hate to be faced with what's going on out there right now.

 

[timac]

I've never been stopped with guns drawn. What happened before the video, was the man wanted for some violent crime?

 

[etrain16]

I've never been stopped with guns drawn. What happened before the video, was the man wanted for some violent crime?

There was a report in the area of a man with a gun.

 

[timac]

There was a report in the area of a man with a gun.

So he and his truck fit the description, man with gun. He proceeded to hide his hands, play stupid games with the police. Appears he won his stupid prizes.

 

[etrain16]

So he and his truck fit the description, man with gun. He proceeded to hide his hands, play stupid games with the police. Appears he won his stupid prizes.

Possibly. Since we don't see everything, it's hard to form a final conclusion. That said, from what we can see, it was definitely a series of bad/tough choices, which is why, again, I didn't pursue my interest in becoming an officer. Every meeting/traffic stop has a potential to be a deadly event. I'd hate to be in that situation.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I am not "picking" on anyone who responded to this thread.
But phrases like :"Stupid is as stupid does" or "Hand over the stupid prize." can come off as sounding unfeeling , uncaring or even arrogant.
Again I am not picking on anyone , nor saying that I am any better than anyone who has replied.

Can anyone here say that they have never made a "Stupid Choice" or earned a "Stupid Prize." ?
Bad choices were made in this story.
( one can even argue bad choices by both sides in this case.)
Bad choices led to Dylan's death.
One day your choices may be looked over as stupid or bad.
Hopefully , it won't be a choice that leads to your death.
Just saying be careful in what and how you comment on other peoples actions.
A person died in this story . People have to live with the fact that they killed someone. Families are hurting.
We need to be respectful of that.
Andy

 

[pacnw]

Are kids just not being raised to respect and obey police officers these days?

Immature teen aside. What happened to seeing a gun before shooting? I would have expected him to be beaten like a baby seal. Much more satisfying than shooting him.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Raise the child with values, morals and respect and these kinds of things don't happen.

Poor parenting is what I'd call it...

In today's society parents can NO longer raise their children as was possible in the past. Kids cry abuse, the state wants both no punishment and responsibility and kids know they have the upper hand and abuse that.

As for shooting vs beating(like in the past), do you really want to get that lose to someone that may have a deadly disease, a bomb strapped to themselves or is trained in hand to hand combat?

Things have changed in this world and not for the better. This utopia that many believe exists and others are desiring, is not a reality. There are too many that want nothing more than to cause mayhem, kill or be kill attitude and still far more so far outside reality they can't function in reality.

I fell no sympathy for the dead guy, and definitely DO for the police in this case. Each of these incidents needs to be addressed on an individual basis and not lumped into a single pile.

We also need to stop reacting to them based on the LIMITED information shown by the media or their friends. We don't have the whole story. That video only starts AFTERWARDS. It does not show a complete uninterrupted timeline.

 

[clearconscience]

I'm sure this kid was also hyped and motivated by the current police environment. Probably figured he would get roughed up or shot and he could be the next hero of the movement or get some big award.

His award wasn't what he expected.

 

[OutlawHoss]

I honestly think that all of you who are saying that this was suicide by cop are wrong.

The teen did not plan to cause the confrontation. He just happened to be in the area where police were searching for an armed man. That is just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He also had no idea that the police were looking for an armed man. He probably thought that they were just harassing him over his driving. That could have potentially made him angry. Or maybe he was just simply having a real bad day, and was thus in a foul mood.

You cannot expect all 19 year olds to think rationally. Many that age, and even well into their 20's, can have a very defiant attitude towards authority.

That is all that I see here: a teen who thinks he is a badass, and will not kowtow to the police.

Here is a selfie of him from his Facebook page. He looks a bit surly to me. He may consider himself to be a "tough guy".

I have no idea what that tattoo on his chest is, though.


View attachment 303894

That tat is the Yamaha Corporate Symbol, he probably likes Yamaha dirt bikes. Irregardless of the other issues, in my opinion only a tool would get a corporate symbol as a tattoo.

 

[Camelfilter]

I agree, sad all around.

I feel that when stopped by police, be respectful & comply.

My thoughts are-If I have issue with the stop, I'd bring it up after the fact from home (phone call) or in person at a station (the next day) or litigiously.

I've been searched twice, once on foot in California (backpacking Yosemite-->Mt Whitney), once driving my pickup truck in Kansas (they searched me + the whole truck/camper).

Cuffed the once while on foot. Placed in the passenger seat of the patrol SUV with the deputy (while 4 backup cruisers arrived - unknowingly to me...). I had no problem with there actions in either instance, and thanked them for the difficult job they have. They apologized & explained there actions.

Other than in Kansas a few years ago, I haven't been pulled over in 20+ years.

If I get pulled over today, I'll be respectful & comply. It doesn't cost me anything, and IMO could save a whole bunch of grief (wasted time, attorney fees, lost work, medical bills etc etc).

 

[decklin]

Wow. So much speculation here.
Here's what IS known.
Cops received a call about a man in the street, on foot, with a rifle.
Cops arrived in the general area and saw Noble doing donuts in a dirt field. They followed him to a gas station, performed a felony stop, and shot him multiple times.
First two shots might be considered reasonable. I'm wondering why one officer didn't deploy a Taser. There are two styles of cartridges. One works up to 15' the other for 30'. Tax dollars are being spent on equipment, I'd like to see them deployed when available.
They deployed it with Alton Sterling who was in the act of physically fighting officers. You're telling me they couldn't try a Taser in the Noble situation.
It's amazing that people are using a Yamaha tattoo and a goofy picture to try to justify a shooting.
I'm curious how a man on foot with a gun call turns into a felony traffic stop and shooting.
The kid should have listened. He didn't and got shot for it. Mistakes appear to have been made by all parties and a young man is now dead.

 

[clearconscience]

Tasers don't always work, this guy wasn't acting rationally which potentially could mean he's high, which would also cause a taser to not work.
When faced with a possible lethal threat a taser is not a good option.

If someone is trying to break in your house and possibly has a gun are you going for your pepper spray?!
Heck no, your spraying lead.

Cops do have multiple options, but so does the bad guy. He chose wrong.

 

[wired]

I think the cops need to lay off the shoot first, ask questions later line of reasoning. Its making them look like a bunch of amateur jackasses.

 

[OutlawHoss]

Wow. So much speculation here.
Here's what IS known.
Cops received a call about a man in the street, on foot, with a rifle.
Cops arrived in the general area and saw Noble doing donuts in a dirt field. They followed him to a gas station, performed a felony stop, and shot him multiple times.
First two shots might be considered reasonable. I'm wondering why one officer didn't deploy a Taser. There are two styles of cartridges. One works up to 15' the other for 30'. Tax dollars are being spent on equipment, I'd like to see them deployed when available.
They deployed it with Alton Sterling who was in the act of physically fighting officers. You're telling me they couldn't try a Taser in the Noble situation.
It's amazing that people are using a Yamaha tattoo and a goofy picture to try to justify a shooting.
I'm curious how a man on foot with a gun call turns into a felony traffic stop and shooting.
The kid should have listened. He didn't and got shot for it. Mistakes appear to have been made by all parties and a young man is now dead.

I don't see anyone saying the tat justifies the shooting; you're drawing that conclusion. Yes, it's a tragedy all around. Yes, I wish it happened differently/was handled differently, but I wasn't there; the shots while he was already down make sense technically, as he's still able to move his arms and continues digging in his pants, but it seems extreme to continue to shoot. There are protocols, techniques, and decision trees the officers are trained in, and under stress, they have to rely on them for better or worse. Maybe their training needs to be looked at; a lot of pd's are training for better mental health practices in stops, but that's a slow road to change under the best conditions.
There is a national disconnect about race and crime. Black kids get shot, it's first looked at as racial not criminal; white kids get shot, it's first a criminal or mental health issue, not racial. Both assumptions are bad for better understanding of these incidents.

When a civilian shoots someone, the gun is seen as the issue, not the person. When a cop shoots someone, people seem all too eager to judge negatively the cop's behavior, which I think is on the right track, holding the person accountable for their actions, not the tool in their hands, but it goes sideways because people don't see justice when cops are acquitted, rightly or wrongly. Most of the narratives in the media are reductionist in nature and oversimplified into black and white issues (literally and figuratively) when they are truly more complex and in shades of grey. But shades of grey don't work well in trying to whip up fear and hysteria, and for forming simplistic conclusions that politicians can use in their agendas/platforms.
It's the ultimate tragedy that the conversations are steered by irrational and purely emotive hyperbole instead of fact; critical thinking and facts though lead to a more informed and aware populace which is bad for the whole government scheme/scam.

 

[Brutus57]

I read another story, seems like he was a likeable kid (loved dirt bikes and off roading) hence the jacked up truck. Often had an American flag in the back window. Upset about something (Heard to say my life sucks) which who hasn't heard teenager say these days but it seldom leads to suicide alone or by cops.

I do have a hard time when someone says the police were responding to a "man with a gun call" as oh well, the cops are justified. Don't they have all this state of the art threat recognition training? Don't they train to shoot the silhouette of the burglar with a gun and NOT the mom with a baby in their live fire training?

No evidence of a gun and like the poor black social worker shooting the gun the Downs syndrome kid had was a TOY TRUCK! I am certainly no gunfighter but in both cases we can all agree the cops had the DROP on these "killers". Even if the victims pulled real guns the cops were in perfect position to end the threat.

As it turns out, neither of these victims were any sort of threat except in the cops minds. Which these days is certainly all it takes to get shot. What bothers me is folks thinking these shootings are OK because IF he/she had a gun.... Sure the victim should have complied but to keep shooting him after the first two rounds, no, that is over the line and excessive use of force.

I expect with a good attorney his folks will stick it to the Fresno city budget but little solace for his parents. I am all for supporting officers but I am also for officers being held accountable to higher standards because having a badge and a gun didn't used to be a license to kill indiscriminately. An the uptick in indiscriminate killings seems to be apparent.

The cops defense? "He made me shoot him!", NO, officers you shot him, he didn't have his hand on the trigger. You didn't get the immediate response you wanted so you ended the threat that was no threat. If you made a mistake man up and admit it.

Lots of folks look at this and then look at Orlando where there definitely was a terrorist with a gun and yet it took 3 HOURS for that threat to be ended. Is it any wonder why many people do not trust the actions of the police these days? Isolated incidents, yes, no, maybe. As public servants on the taxpayers payroll police have every right to be held accountable for their actions. Protecting the bad apples and I am not saying unequivocally these cops are bad apples, but to protect the bad shoots does a service to no one and simply gives more fuel to groups like BLM and NBPP.

I think full investigations of these sorts of things in a timely manner would help all of society.

Brutus Out

 

[Osarion]

I think the cops need to lay off the shoot first, ask questions later line of reasoning. Its making them look like a bunch of amateur jackasses.

If I were a cop, and maybe some folks on this forum actually are and can talk from that perspective...
but if a suspect was already at the point of being at gunpoint, refusing orders, advancing on me AND makes to draw a gun from his hip? Then yes, you fire. This was done very intentionally and I don't buy that the kid simply didn't understand the gravity of his actions. This was suicide by cop, plain and simple.

Nothing to do with the current racial tensions going on, nothing to do with police brutality. The kid wanted to die and forced the cops into this action. Although it does look very odd, shooting him after he was already down I'll grant.

 

[wired]

He was not drawing a gun from his hip. He was advancing yes but he was unarmed. Using the "I thought he was drawing a gun" excuse is getting old when there is no gun. Less than lethal force should be exhausted first. I dont care how tough or stoned you are. If you get hosed down with industrial strength pepper spray or better yet tear gas you are going to go down into the fetal position damned fast.

If the cops are so jumpy and scared to death of twitchy movements perhaps they should consider different jobs. If their training says shoot first before getting a firm handle on the situation and exhausting other measures first then their training needs to be changed.