White Teen Ignores all Police Officer Commands, and then Dies

[PaulB47]

The kid may be dead, but at least they stopped a traffic violation.

It looks like suicide by cop to me. But once he was on the ground they certainly should have backed off rather than shooting some more. I keep getting back to what would happen if one of us peons had shot somebody like that, rather than a cop. Wouldn't we be sitting in jail by now?

Or maybe it was just a kid who didn't think cops would shoot him over nothing, just testing their limits. If so, silly him. Reality can be harsh at times.

Are kids just not being raised to respect and obey police officers these days?

Uh, respect probably is not the right word.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Maybe I'll go a different route this time, again looking at my current experience as a teacher.
1) I have a ton of students with a WIDE variety of malfunctions.
2) I have to develop, over time, through experience, varied techniques that work for each special snowflake.
3) Whenever something doesn't work, I try something new.
4) With time on my side, I am able to work well with almost all of my students.
5) None of them have the capacity to kill me or even to hurt me, really.

Police officers have to deal with an even wider assortment of people with an even greater variety of malfunctions.
1) They usually don't have time to learn what might work with this special snowflake in front of them.
2) Because of the stakes involved, they must follow their training, however inadequate it may be.
3) They read the news as we all do, completely aware that people exist everywhere who hate them and want them killed.
4) Every person can potentially hurt them or kill them at any moment during any interaction.

What I take from these two sets of facts is that we cannot expect that police officers can or should treat the public with the same patient kid-gloves with which I treat my students.

What I take from this situation is that deranged, intoxicated, drugged out, non-functioning human beings are too often walking our streets. So often, in fact that our police officers have to assume that everyone they meet is one of those. We once had no mental patients wandering the streets, and no (or darned few) homeless beggars sleeping in the gutter. Welcome to the world of trickle down economics.

 

[x2ndxall]

What of the dog? Wouldn't this have been the perfect opportunity to use that asset? At least one of them thought that was the appropriate action.

 

[decklin]

That is highly doubtful. He had a cute girlfriend and owned guns. Those are things that Autistic people usually do not have.

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That blanket statement isn't nearly big enough to cover the autism spectrum.

 

[bbbass]

You guys seem to forget that there were four supposed professionals with guns drawn, on target, fingers tight on go. How long does it take you to fire from there? I know for fact that he couldn't have gotten a shot into me before he was dead weight.

I'm whacked, or just pissed off... I know I can't beat four officers, I just wanna get one. I draw from behind my back, and the officers start shooting me. Some might miss. But I do get shot... do I fall right away like this kid did? Usually not. I might get a shot into somebody even so. What you seem to forget is to look at it from the officers point of view. As a LEO, not as someone in Fallujah under a different set of circumstances, different body armor, and ROE.

Perps rarely fall over right away.

 

[x2ndxall]

I'm whacked, or just pissed off... I know I can't beat four officers, I just wanna get one. I draw from behind my back, and the officers start shooting me. Some might miss. But I do get shot... do I fall right away like this kid did? Usually not. I might get a shot into somebody even so. What you seem to forget is to look at it from the officers point of view. As a LEO, not as someone in Fallujah under a different set of circumstances, different body armor, and ROE.

Perps rarely fall over right away.

As a cop, I may have taken the first shot (not the rest of them), after one of my teammates tried a less lethal method. There were four of them.
One of them was asking about letting the dog go. If they truly cared about the kid's life, why not let the dog go?
The other thing stuck in my pea brain is, as servants, shouldn't they be more interested in protecting those they serve than themselves?
As for dropping him, as a policeman at that range, you should be able to poke him in the brain.
I know cops miss on a regular basis, but they shouldn't.
Maybe it's all training, idk. But in a world where they need all the support they can get, they should learn how to avoid killing unarmed citizens.

 

[CHLChris]

As for dropping him, as a policeman at that range, you should be able to poke him in the brain.
I know cops miss on a regular basis, but they shouldn't.
Maybe it's all training, idk.

"Why didn't they just shoot 'im in the leg?" I know you're saying that maybe just one to the head would have sufficed, but their training teaches COM. I don't understand why there is any expectation on cops to choose their aiming point based on circumstances. It is such Monday-morning quarterbacking. So many things are going through their heads that the only place to shoot is center of mass.

I'm not suggesting they necessarily should have shot in this case, just that the aiming point is going to be the sternum, and not the skull and not the femur. And we cannot judge that part of this encounter.

 

[bbbass]

As a cop, I may have taken the first shot (not the rest of them), after one of my teammates tried a less lethal method. There were four of them. You're a cop? Your choice but already debunked. Nobody acting strangely or aggressively gets within 21ft when you are not behind cover, period.
One of them was asking about letting the dog go. If they truly cared about the kid's life, why not let the dog go? Maybe letting the dog go would have been good, IDK what the policy is on that. First job is to go home at the end of the day. Second job is to catch perps. Third job is to protect citizens (often by shooting the bad guy). The job isn't to care about a grown perps life when he is acting aggressively --- safety first!!!
The other thing stuck in my pea brain is, as servants, shouldn't they be more interested in protecting those they serve than themselves? NO. Servants? That is offensive!! They are employees that don't get paid enough to do a dangerous job.

As for dropping him, as a policeman at that range, you should be able to poke him in the brain. I know cops miss on a regular basis, but they shouldn't. Really, really? This one has been debunked so many times that I won't even go into it. Not to mention that the "kill switch" is embedded deeply in the brain and can only be reach thru the "face mask", a very small area around the bridge of the nose.
Maybe it's all training, idk. But in a world where they need all the support they can get, they should learn how to avoid killing unarmed citizens. Unrealistic. Period. However, there are many many many police interactions with unarmed citizens every day that do not result in shooting. However, if you don't follow instructions, make threatening gestures, and move aggressively toward officers while reaching, you WILL get shot.

Anyone who has these kind of expectations, and monday morning QB, should sign up and go do the job. Make it a little safer for the poor misunderstood, culture of non-compliance, culture of aggression types out there. Replace the over-bearing, dominant, fascist LEOs out there that just want to shoot some innocent and then go home and laugh about it. Yep, please go for it!!!

 

[x2ndxall]

"Why didn't they just shoot 'im in the leg?" I know you're saying that maybe just one to the head would have sufficed, but their training teaches COM. I don't understand why there is any expectation on cops to choose their aiming point based on circumstances. It is such Monday-morning quarterbacking. So many things are going through their heads that the only place to shoot is center of mass.

I'm not suggesting they necessarily should have shot in this case, just that the aiming point is going to be the sternum, and not the skull and not the femur. And we cannot judge that part of this encounter.

You missed my point but it's probably my fault. I didn't say they should alter their aim. What I was saying is that they should be able to hit a head size target at that range, so why would they miss a center of mass shot?.
As far as them having so much going through their heads that they can't think straight and all that, that shouldn't be true.

Again, maybe it's just a matter of training.

 

[x2ndxall]

As a cop, I may have taken the first shot (not the rest of them), after one of my teammates tried a less lethal method. There were four of them. You're a cop? Your choice but already debunked. Nobody acting strangely or aggressively gets within 21ft when you are not behind cover, period.
One of them was asking about letting the dog go. If they truly cared about the kid's life, why not let the dog go? Maybe letting the dog go would have been good, IDK what the policy is on that. First job is to go home at the end of the day. Second job is to catch perps. Third job is to protect citizens (often by shooting the bad guy). The job isn't to care about a grown perps life when he is acting aggressively --- safety first!!!
The other thing stuck in my pea brain is, as servants, shouldn't they be more interested in protecting those they serve than themselves? NO. Servants? That is offensive!! They are employees that don't get paid enough to do a dangerous job.

As for dropping him, as a policeman at that range, you should be able to poke him in the brain. I know cops miss on a regular basis, but they shouldn't. Really, really? This one has been debunked so many times that I won't even go into it. Not to mention that the "kill switch" is embedded deeply in the brain and can only be reach thru the "face mask", a very small area around the bridge of the nose.
Maybe it's all training, idk. But in a world where they need all the support they can get, they should learn how to avoid killing unarmed citizens. Unrealistic. Period. However, there are many many many police interactions with unarmed citizens every day that do not result in shooting. However, if you don't follow instructions, make threatening gestures, and move aggressively toward officers while reaching, you WILL get shot.

Anyone who has these kind of expectations, and monday morning QB, should sign up and go do the job. Make it a little safer for the poor misunderstood, culture of non-compliance, culture of aggression types out there. Replace the over-bearing, dominant, fascist LEOs out there that just want to shoot some innocent and then go home and laugh about it. Yep, please go for it!!!

First off, I don't see the point in continuing this as it's become an embarrassing p!ssing match. So just a few corrections and then you can do as you wish, but I'm done. You know what you know, and I know what I know.

No, I'm definitely no cop but I have seen more than my fair share of death.
By "As a cop, I may have....", I was putting myself in their shoes, saying, if I was a cop, I may have taken the first shot. Make sense? Sorry for the confusion.

Secondly, what has been debunked over and over is the debunking of which you speak.

Third, you say police officers are not servants. They are, and have always been, servants. Just for giggles, I checked out the Fresno PD's website knowing I'd find a motto or some such saying basically what I've said. Low and behold, the first thing I see is this:
"Welcome to the Fresno Police Department where you will find a team of dedicated public servants who care about the Fresno community and strive to serve with compassion, honesty and respect." Say what?? So the police actually aren't offended by being called servants?? (Just kidding, I already knew that).

The next thing I read is this:
"The men and women of the Fresno Police Department are dedicated to serving our community with honesty, compassion, and respect as we keep our citizens safe. We do this by preventing citizens from becoming victims of crime or being injured in a traffic collision. This is our highest priority." So protecting the citizens is their highest priority, and not making sure the cops make it home? Just as it should be, but I already knew that too, didn't I?

For your statement proclaiming humans don't usually fall right away, I'm not sure where you get that, other than the fact that the ones who don't are the ones most likely to be in your YouTube videos. In truth, most folks are approachable after the first shot. And yes, I'm very aware of the difficulty of hitting a moving target in the T-box. I don't expect cops to attempt it. Especially when their lives may be in jeopardy.

You also said "there are many many many police interactions with unarmed citizens that do not result in shooting". I agree, and that's kinda been my point all along.

FWIW at this point, my heart goes out to the men and women who sign up to serve the people in such a profession. I will proudly stand beside them when it becomes necessary.

I'm probably missing some points, but don't care and gotta go. Stay safe brother.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Perps rarely fall over right away.

You are comparing a buffed out MMA fighter to a skinny teenager.

 

[OutlawHoss]

"To Protect and Serve" Yes, they serve the public, and I know many who do view their service as such, even humbly. The police represent where the rubber meets the road of the social contract between a government and its citizens. This relationship must be reciprocally beneficial to all parties, or it is broken.
The sheepdogs aren't supposed to kill the sheep.

 

[Brutus57]

The American Civil Liberties Union labeled the Fresno Police Department as being "Trigger Happy" back in March of this year.

Here is a link to the article that they wrote about the department's record:

Do Fresno Police Have a Secrecy Problem? (https://www.aclunc.org/blog/do-fresno-police-have-secrecy-problem)

That's pretty unequivocal video. Here's what is even more disturbing...how many times these officers take as pure gospel whatever a citizen or dispatcher says. How about SOP with two officers responding...one tases, one shoots if necessary?

SOme of these are questionable as to necessity but some you just have to call a spade a shovel too because they are burying these poor citizens with little or no provocation in some of these shoots.

Brutus Out

 

[Ura-Ki]

Still don't know why the hell they didn't let the dog chew him up a bit, make him nice and compliant! 4 big, bad officers with guns, and they sure used them, didn't they! If this kid had been black, the cities would burn! Did the cops have a good reason to shoot? by the book, yes, the kid meets the requirements, but the cops should be a lot better then this! We the people Demand better then this, and so far, we aint getting our moneys worth, and this kid is DEAD! Right or wrong, DEAD IS FINAL!!!

 

[coop44]

I'll bet at least one of the four takes a disability retirement for psycholigical reasons because of this. Another will give up being an officer altogether in the near future. Results of being legally justified but not morally right.

 

[coop44]

I wonder if constant hand sanitizing, and constantly staring at a cell phone are autistic behaviors? If so, we have a whole nation of autistics.

Back on topic, he's dead there's no coming back from that. wounded, in jail, there is still a chance he can contribute to society. wait a minute, he was in fresno, nevermind.

seriously the development of the brain isnt finished until you reach your mid twenties, which is why we see such poor decision making skills in young people. but of course leo's are not required to know this.

yep when you cant get hired on with lapd or lacso,there's always fresno. I worked for many years in firearms and police supplies in Ornage county, saw all the new acadamy recruits come in for uniforms and supplies. I wouldnt trust a one of them with a squirt gun.

 

[Brutus57]

I wonder if constant hand sanitizing, and constantly staring at a cell phone are autistic behaviors? If so, we have a whole nation of autistics.

Back on topic, he's dead there's no coming back from that. wounded, in jail, there is still a chance he can contribute to society. wait a minute, he was in fresno, nevermind.

OUCH!, True, but OUCH!

Brutus Out

 

[U8395279]

That blanket statement isn't nearly big enough to cover the autism spectrum.

A blanket statement beats pure speculation any day.

 

[bbbass]

Revisiting the "21-Foot Rule" (http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2014/09/revisiting-the-21-foot-rule.aspx)

You are comparing a buffed out MMA fighter to a skinny teenager.

Only one example of many. An exaggeration to make the point. But I'm thinkin people get killed by skinny teenagers every day.

 

[PaulB47]

The other thing stuck in my pea brain is, as servants, shouldn't they be more interested in protecting those they serve than themselves?

This should be a clue to you, that they aren't really servants. That is not their function. It is, however, part of the propaganda. It's better to understand reality, than to believe propaganda.

Likewise, people who run for office, do not do so because they want to be "public servants". They do it to be masters. To see this, all you have to do is detect who commands whom.