White Teen Ignores all Police Officer Commands, and then Dies

[CHLChris]

I teach children with the full spectrum of autism so I completely understand the issues, but cops these days cannot be expected to behave as teachers do. In my line of work, the ENTIRE focus is on staff avoiding the triggers of children with issues. This may be an exaggeration, but it is accurate to say that educators have taken upon themselves all blame for negative, antisocial behaviors of children. When children behave poorly, staff are to ask themselves, "What did I do, what environment did I create, that triggered this behavior."

Cops can't do that when there are people out there with guns who hate the POH-lease. If a person isn't able to handle a stressful situation like a traffic stop, then they should not have a license.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I have a fully functioning autistic brother who you would never know had "issues" until something just like this happened! Shouted commands, and from more then one person, At the same time! As much as it would confuse you or me, He would just lock up, sit down and cover his ears while rocking back and forth! Did this kid have any of these problems? don't know, may be just having a really bad day, girl friend just dumped him, ext.........Don't know what was going on in his head, and now we will never know!

 

[nammac]

I have a fully functioning autistic brother who you would never know had "issues" until something just like this happened! Shouted commands, and from more then one person, At the same time! As much as it would confuse you or me, He would just lock up, sit down and cover his ears while rocking back and forth! Did this kid have any of these problems? don't know, may be just having a really bad day, girl friend just dumped him, ext.........Don't know what was going on in his head, and now we will never know!

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. This kid could have been very high functioning Autistic, we may never know.

Police don't need to be social workers, but should work through the Arsenal from least lethal to most lethal, as the situation demands.

Police who can't control themselves shouldn't be out on the street performing traffic stops or answering calls of men in the street playing with toy trucks...

I'm a staunch supporter of the police. But what we have seen recently is not acceptable... Actually, the more I think about it the more infuriated I become.

Edited to correct predictive spelling

 

[CHLChris]

I am really two-minded when it comes to law enforcement's use of force.

On one side, I really believe that people who don't immediately and respectfully comply (and I really don't care why) with commands of a police officer get what they get and probably deserve every ounce of it, even unto death.

On the other side, I really believe that the might of our increasingly tyrannical government is meted upon a free society by police officers, in particular, and law enforcement, in general. And their use of force must be tempered by a vigilant public.

 

[slimmer13]

What's funny about these threads are how much opinions vary from person to person greatly. This thread from last year was a fairly similar case, yet I had the exact opposite POV and was bringing up points the people in this recent case are. The difference in the two is this guy was advancing and wanted to fight in this recent case IMO which forced the split second decision by the LEO.

This is why we need videos. (https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/this-is-why-we-need-videos.201755/)

 

[decklin]

Oh, I'm not siding with the officers! I'm siding against stupid, little, shat heads! Sick of them, I personally don't need 'em, don't care a whit about them!

decklin, I'm glad that you served, and very glad that you survived!
But! That you spent your career on street patrol is one of the tragedys of this (L word that we can't say) age!
The military should go in, kill people and break things until the enemy gives up or collapses! Then go home until the next arrogant, s head, country requests a repeat! Collateral damage my patooty! Rebuild the enemy, same patooty!

See how this is a common theme with me!
I should, perhaps, change my handle to, Capt. Unfriendly!

Andy, you stand aces with me! You too decklin!

As far as the war goes I agree whole heartedly. I wish the country would come together the way they did for WWII. They did what it took to win.
We did what it took to make a politician look good in front of the PC crowd.

 

[decklin]

I have a fully functioning autistic brother who you would never know had "issues" until something just like this happened! Shouted commands, and from more then one person, At the same time! As much as it would confuse you or me, He would just lock up, sit down and cover his ears while rocking back and forth! Did this kid have any of these problems? don't know, may be just having a really bad day, girl friend just dumped him, ext.........Don't know what was going on in his head, and now we will never know!

I have one half brother on my dad's side who is autistic. Through years of expensive schools and therapists he is capable of having conversations on his terms. He would absolutely shut down in this situation.
I have another half brother on my mother's side. He is s member of the junior civil air patrol. He had years of speech therapy and is very high functioning. He's highly intelligent and blends in. He's 14 and this is a recent development.
He would definitely shut down in this situation. I have no idea how he would react.

 

[Osarion]

You cannot say violent crime has been on the decline since the early '90's to justify gun ownership and argue against gun control in one thread, then in the next say it's more dangerous now to justify cops shooting unarmed people.
That's changing the narrative to suit your opinion.
Use facts and logic not speculation please.

I would also like people to consider their positions on personal responsibility in this case.

There are people on this thread saying that this kid did not possess the maturity or faculties to understand what he was doing. That he was too emotional or immature to really understand the consequences of his actions.

This person was old enough to vote, own a gun and go and defend our country in war.

The abdication of personal responsibility legitimizes the line of thinking that "People don't kill people, GUNS kill people." ironic seeing this on this forum, of all places.

 

[OutlawHoss]

Inevitably, everyone is responsible for their own behavior, even as ultimately it is regardless of the degree they can be self aware of it or control it. To that end everyone will make mistakes. Constitutionally, we are meant to have the benefit of the doubt in all matters, and secure in ourselves as citizens withstanding our fallible and human nature. People should not be killed for being imperfect, no doubt. If peace officers are to retain, maintain, or regain the public trust, there must be accountability to the popular concept of justice and to the spirit of the rule of law; not the pathological cowardice of seeking the loopholes of written law and jurisprudence where lawyers and politicians dwell and common decency is naught.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Kudos! So very true... My youngest daughter is a high functioning Autistic child. Very intelligent, very happy but not always social.

If you bark an order at her with any level of authority in your voice she will lock up and begin to shut down. She has every right to feel safe out in society, not worrying about being gunned down by the police because she doesn't respond immediately and in the manner they want.

Same here. Ask her to comply, wait a few seconds and ask her again, calmly and in a normal tone of voice and within a few seconds she will comply. Start yelling and being angry and she either freezes up or becomes agitated. Either way she CANNOT comply. It's not that she doesn't want to, it's that she is overwhelmed by the noise and urgency.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Same here. Ask her to comply, wait a few seconds and ask her again, calmly and in a normal tone of voice and within a few seconds she will comply. Start yelling and being angry and she either freezes up or becomes agitated. Either way she CANNOT comply. It's not that she doesn't want to, it's that she is overwhelmed by the noise and urgency.

My brother is almost exactly the same! We found he has hyper active senses and have discovered light and sound are particularly hard for him to deal with. Tone down both light and sound, and he is almost normal. We also found diet changes made all kinds of difference in his behavior, Completely gluten free and modified dairy have made huge changes! He is able to live on his own and as long as he has a structured scheduled existence, he is just fine!

 

[CHLChris]

In how many cases are people, far enough on the autism spectrum to shut down in chaos, able to drive?

 

[Sgt Nambu]

As far as the war goes I agree whole heartedly. I wish the country would come together the way they did for WWII. They did what it took to win.
We did what it took to make a politician look good in front of the PC crowd.

I know, buddy! Makes me want to cry!

 

[nammac]

Same here. Ask her to comply, wait a few seconds and ask her again, calmly and in a normal tone of voice and within a few seconds she will comply. Start yelling and being angry and she either freezes up or becomes agitated. Either way she CANNOT comply. It's not that she doesn't want to, it's that she is overwhelmed by the noise and urgency.

Ding, ding, ding... We have a winner, wish I could give you a dozen likes...

That's exactly what it's like.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Good question, My brother can drive but with restrictions! HE is only allowed to drive during day light hours and only a set route! Most autictic's are very structured, have a very set list of things that they do or can do, and as long as there is no deviation to that, there is no problem! Most at this level are so safe and reliable that they would be model motorists! It's funny yet sad to watch him go about his day! He has his very set way of checking out his car and his drive to and from work or the store or Mom and Dads is exactly the same in every detail! Toss in something like a flat tire, and he is completely lost ( and some one gets a very panicked call) but a quart low on oil is not a problem! He has AAA for just these sort of things!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I know, buddy! Makes me want to cry!

You and I, brother.

 

[nammac]

My brother is almost exactly the same! We found he has hyper active senses and have discovered light and sound are particularly hard for him to deal with. Tone down both light and sound, and he is almost normal. We also found diet changes made all kinds of difference in his behavior, Completely gluten free and modified dairy have made huge changes! He is able to live on his own and as long as he has a structured scheduled existence, he is just fine!

Agreed - gluten, dairy and refined sugar seem to be instigators. My girl is more sound and touch sensitive than light.

She's an A student, well above grade level in math, language, reading and writing...

She can't do automatic car washes, the dryer at the end is way too loud for her... Even the hair dryer can sometimes be a clhallenge.

Makes life interesting, no doubt about it. Just takes a little extra work to be sure she is properly accommodated...

 

[Sgt Nambu]

In how many cases are people, far enough on the autism spectrum to shut down in chaos, able to drive?

I was just reading down to the page bottom to, respectfully, ask this same question, Chris!

 

[Ura-Ki]

One thing to remember here, There are many levels of autism, and some may show signs of it with out actually having it, while others will have it but show very little impediment! It's a very tricky one to try and guess through, not a lot is understood with it yet or what causes it! Like wise, Some can be "cured" while others are completely broken ( it sucks to say it this way, but I know of no other way to say it!) I'm not going to guess this kid "had" this issue, but based on his actions in the video, I see traits of it!

 

[x2ndxall]

I would also like people to consider their positions on personal responsibility in this case.

There are people on this thread saying that this kid did not possess the maturity or faculties to understand what he was doing. That he was too emotional or immature to really understand the consequences of his actions.

This person was old enough to vote, own a gun and go and defend our country in war.

The abdication of personal responsibility legitimizes the line of thinking that "People don't kill people, GUNS kill people." ironic seeing this on this forum, of all places.

I don't believe anyone said "that this kid did not possess the maturity or faculties to understand what he was doing. That he was too emotional or immature to really understand the consequences of his actions". It's been offered as a possibility. As an example of why we can't have LEOs so quick to kill.