WA: So a man walks into a bar......................

[Nwcid]

Provided the place sells food and has a kitchen and makes x revenue (how are you going to know that) in food vs. alcohol, it's okay. What a bunch of BS. Like I have time to go through their business records and tally up everything just to have a beer.

What does that have to do with ANYTHING in WA?

 

[Strykervet]

MYOB

Me? Well sorry, I'm not the type to just walk by while someone is being murdered. I'm sure lots of people on here are as I was privy to that first hand --ten or more Canadian citizens didn't give a crap, just taking pictures and "minding their own business". See it all the time.

I'm not a vigilante either --they go looking for problems, I don't. But if a problem presents itself, I won't shy away. And I damn sure won't stand around taking pictures. I don't even own a cell phone, or a phone at all for that matter.

I guess I do mind my own business, and my business is being a good citizen.

 

[Strykervet]

What does that have to do with ANYTHING in WA?

Read the law. It says it clearly. You can't carry in a bar, and a bar is defined by it's revenue in alcohol sales. Stupid but true.

Since you can't know that without analyzing their books, you have to play it safe and stick with places that list as restaurants. If they don't have a kitchen and a menu, then they are definitely a bar. Uber for example, or Prost.

But the line between many bars/restaurants in WA is very blurred --I bet many places make 50/50 or thereabouts on both sales.

The outdoor concert thing... It also has a stipulation about how many people are gathered before it becomes illegal.

 

[Nwcid]

Read the law. It says it clearly. You can't carry in a bar, and a bar is defined by it's revenue in alcohol sales. Stupid but true.

Since you can't know that without analyzing their books, you have to play it safe and stick with places that list as restaurants. If they don't have a kitchen and a menu, then they are definitely a bar. Uber for example, or Prost.

But the line between many bars/restaurants in WA is very blurred --I bet many places make 50/50 or thereabouts on both sales.

The outdoor concert thing... It also has a stipulation about how many people are gathered before it becomes illegal.

You might want to read up on your WA state laws again, because does NOT say that, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41

Here is the the link specifically listing the prohibited places, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age

Of course nothing about "outdoor concert thing".

 

[Strykervet]

You might want to read up on your WA state laws again, because does NOT say that, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41

Here is the the link specifically listing the prohibited places, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age

Of course nothing about "outdoor concert thing".

Here's a cut from the REST of the law --you're only looking at part of it.

"It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival." From RCW 70.108.020: 'For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings: (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to
www.handgunlaw.us 4
government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.' (emphasis in original)

Any questions?

Sorry I couldn't find the thing about liquor revenues --you may be right. I recall it in my handbook I got over a decade ago though. Perhaps they changed the wording because "establishments 21 and over" makes more sense than does just guessing. I could see a lot of people getting run through the wringer over the wording I mentioned.

But the outdoor concert thing is still there, like it or not.

As far as other off limits places, they generally let you know. And courthouses and jails and such, they'll check your weapon at the door. And they've always been very kind and helpful doing so.

Oh, and they actually do recommend you check it --once I left it locked in the truck and they told me not to do that, that it's safer to just bring it in. That was King County Courthouse when I went to reup my license.

 

[Nwcid]

Interesting. I wonder why that is not cross referenced in the RCW like all the other firearms laws........

 

[AMT]

There are certain areas in restaurants that can be "deemed" the bar area. Usually numerous signs posted at every entrance stating that it is over 18 only. THOSE areas of the restaurant is considered a no gun zone.

The other "family" area of the restaurant is OK to carry in.

My son works in one of those type of establishments. He told an off-duty LEO that he knew what the laws were in the bar. The LEO looked at him unknowingly. My son pointed out that it was visible and needed to leave the bar area or put the gun away and he may return. The LEO smiled, left, then returned to finish his happy-hour food and beer.

The establishment can be fined heavily if they allow a person to carry in the "adult area". They can even potentially lose their license.

Whether OP (or you, me, us, we) say anything is up to the individual. I personally would have said something to the guy who was carrying in the bar area.

 

[Nwcid]

.

My son works in one of those type of establishments. He told an off-duty LEO that he knew what the laws were in the bar. The LEO looked at him unknowingly. My son pointed out that it was visible and needed to leave the bar area or put the gun away and he may return. The LEO smiled, left, then returned to finish his happy-hour food and beer.

(6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

 

[AMT]

The LEO was not on duty. He was off duty enjoying happy hour and a beer. LEO's can go a whole lot of places, carrying everything that they carry, but it is different when they are off duty.

 

[Strykervet]

(6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

Yeah, but from experience as a soldier, you are off duty and not considered to be on duty when at a bar and drinking. I bet police are the same way. Any NCO or officer who has been drinking cannot issue an order to a junior and expect it to be followed. I had one mess with me once and it didn't go too well --for him.

At that point, the cop is no more than a civilian like you or me --he's not on the job. A drunk armed cop can't do anything legal anyway --it'll get thrown out in court, but that's a different matter. I'm pretty sure it says they have to be operating in a legal capacity in order to circumvent the off limits establishments.

The definitions of the law are just as important as the stated law.

NWcid: As to why that isn't in the prohibited places thing you posted? Who knows. I DO know the law is much longer than that one page, and they have a handbook that has all of that in it.

Wanna hear something funny? I once pulled up a DOD van right up on the sidewalk at SEATAC and parked it in front of the doors just a year or so after 9-11. We unloaded giant black boxes FULL of automatic weapons (M4's to 240's) NODs, lasers and all kinds of gear. You should have seen those cops when we opened up those boxes! Of course we were operating in an official capacity so it was all kosher. MSG Mack (RIP) really gave those guys hell when they tried to get in his way. But we were within the law, so nothing they could do but put our gear on the plane.

We didn't have any explosives or ammo though, that's another law altogether.

 

[Nwcid]

The exemption does not say on or off duty.

Yes the guy was having a beer, so I guess it would depend on his departments policy.

I know even off duty LEO are still required to deal with deal with crimes if they are witnessed, generally only deal with felony's though. Because of this many department require off duty carry. So an LEO has one beer and someone in the bar is being assaulted. Does he sit by and say "I had a beer I can't act" or "I had a beer and I can act, but I don't have a gun" or something completely different..........

 

[Nwcid]

Yes, the laws are more then one page. That is just the links to each individual law. The title is
Chapter 9.41 RCW FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS so you would believe all those laws would be in it........

 

[AMT]

I would believe that the law is written for on-duty and off-duty. The same with civilians.

IE: picking up your child from their school, while waiting in your car, you can CCW. If you go to a school function, entering into the property (buildings), that is a NO CCW.

I would assume the same with LEO's. Just because they are off-duty they don't have free reign and must obey some of the laws that we do too.

 

[Nwcid]

But they are, that is the issue. They are not actively doing their duties, but they are still required by law to act if they are exposed to certain crimes, especially a felony. How can you act without the proper tools?

I know my BIL is a county detective. He is required to be able to do his job at all times, on or off duty. The only time he is not, is if he is "impaired" but the definition of impaired is whole different long discussion.

 

[Truenorth]

One of my fishing buddy's owns several bars in Seattle. Bars, not restaurants. 21 over only.
I asked him one day what he does when someone is spotted carrying a concealed pistol in the bar.

He said it's only happened a few times and never been a big deal.
He'll buy them a drink and quietly ask them to do him a favor and go put the firearm in their vehicle.

If he's not there his staff has been instructed to call the police and not to intervene.
It's rare but that's the standing protocol, has been for 15 years. I'm guessing other bars have the same rule.