Traveling in post SHTF situations

[Rufusbob]

Depends on who those few people are.

I'll certainly agree that a few well trained and equiped operators can hold their own against larger, less trained and/or less well equipped groups! However, consider this very likely post SHTF scenario. A group of several family units of somewhat trained and practiced folks against a group of 40 or so well armed, hungry Hell's Angels, many former military and most veterans of the worst prisons! They are the purist form of human (?) preadotors now, what will they be like in that world when driven by starvation? I mentioned Somalia because these types of groups rule the land, taking what the want, when they want, leaving death, destruction, rape, torture and maiming in their wake. I just don't think that most folks are mentally prepared for what they will face if indeed WORL occurs. I pray we don't find out!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

According to George Washington's vision we we will be invaded by the UN. In fact the invasion is already well underway for several generations

As to bug out when our new rural retreat home is built and we travel to town for supplies we will pack a pair of fully loaded enduros.. there is an excellent back trail/dirt road direct to our place

Think on this.. what if you get to your retreat and it's already occupied by hostiles? Be careful and have a plan to deal with that

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'll certainly agree that a few well trained and equiped operators can hold their own against larger, less trained and/or less well equipped groups! However, consider this very likely post SHTF scenario. A group of several family units of somewhat trained and practiced folks against a group of 40 or so well armed, hungry Hell's Angels, many former military and most veterans of the worst prisons! They are the purist form of human (?) preadotors now, what will they be like in that world when driven by starvation? I mentioned Somalia because these types of groups rule the land, taking what the want, when they want, leaving death, destruction, rape, torture and maiming in their wake. I just don't think that most folks are mentally prepared for what they will face if indeed WORL occurs. I pray we don't find out!

Word: Insulated Concrete Forms and firing ports

I'm mentally prepared. My older brother used to hang out with those types (he restored antique Harleys as a hobby) and I have been up the river and over the mountain. In fact I will have a mass grave and lots of lime ready in advance

 

[Galant]

Mindset, skillset, toolset . . . In that order.

 

[DuneHopper]

I was part of the emergency and disaster preparedness for our company just some tips we used to discuss and teach
I picked our top ten.


1. travel small groups or singly the larger the group the more attention is drawn to you..
2 .Take back roads the more less traveled or known the better.
3. do not use firearms to hunt or gather food unless necessary as it draws attention.
4. Travel between 4am and 6am as most people are hunkered down and a sleep and will not be patrolling or roaming.
5. Travel light as you can, the less you have the faster and less calories you burn.
6. Avoid stores for food and supplies it is often were people will watch for activity.
7. travel close to hills not valleys, people looking from above cannot see you and people below can not see you it may take you slightly longer to travel a hill edge but you have a better chance on not being seen.
8. Pets are not for travel, even dogs will and can draw attention to you, make sure you realize the repercussions of your pet weight benefits vs concerns.
9. If you must make a fire do so before dark and after light a 1 foot fire can be seen over 1/2 mile at night even through brush.
10. Water must be your highest priority to bring or access as you hike out of a city you will sweat and need water and water is an areas you want to avoid ( homes, stores etc).

Remember people change when they are hungry, and thirsty or need your jacket or shoes.
Travel to not be noticed ( unless you want to be ) is your best and safest way to get out of the city.
If you want to be seen reverse most of what was said.

 

[AMProducts]

A few observations...

I used to live in Los Angeles, a place that has at least some of the hazards the OP was worried about. From this vantage point, some observations:

Riots are rarely "large scale" events initially, they may cover a few city blocks, and may spread quickly, however there is usually only a small percentage of the population actually involved in rioting. They may be traveling as a pack, but are usually limited to how far they can walk. As long as you stay away from the places where a riot is going on, you likely won't notice the riot except for the news coverage. If a riot is a key indicator of time to bug out... do so, but before leaving, get a very good idea of where the riot is occuring, where it's moving, and exactly what level of violence to expect. Have multiple routes, as other people who may be going about normal business may have to re-route also. This could mean traffic. In this sense, it's more like a wildfire than any other disaster.

Wildfires - depending on the topography of where you are, a wildfire can be a significant problem to getting to the hinterboonies, as back roads and rural routes may be shut down, or impassable due to fire. Like a riot, plan ahead, know where the fire is, where it's going, and what the conditions of the fire are (it may be flaming up, but rain is going to start in 2 days).

Earthquakes - much like hurricanes, storms and other natural events earthquakes can definitely destroy and pretense you had of a normal life. Unlike the other events, you get zero warning. In my experience, few people use an earthquake as an opportunity to rob, loot, and make chaos the main reason is everyone is still there. People will loot after everyone has evacuated, but looting an occupied house is a great way to catch a bullet, even in the workers paradise of california. If you chose to bug out, you probably could, I have yet to see the government ever make an attempt to shut down routes into or out of the city after a major quake. The only exception to this, is when the road system is damaged.

A lot of people throw around the "3 days from anarchy" lines... "when you're hungry what will you do!?" things will have to fall down pretty bad for any of these doomsday predictions to come to light. Except possibly for a full nuclear exchange, or a pandemic illness, the conditions for a situation like this to occur are incredibly remote.

Making worst case comparisons to somalia don't work. Somalia was a s-hole before the civil war, so it really didn't have too far to fall. Meanwhile places like Argentina, the former USSR, yea things got bad, but it never turned into a zombie apocalypse with people setting light to vast swaths of moscow or buenos aires, with bodies piled up in the streets like cordwood and RPG toting gangs driving around in hi-lux pickups.

 

[Cortes]

Get both. You can eat the mule. Lol

My Dad had a mule I wanted to eat so very bad. That mule was crazy and wild. He bought it auction and it would jump any fence or cattleguard rather than be caught and would just run right through you. That SOB hurt me plenty of times and it would have been so easy to just put a bullet in his neck and have the rest of him for mule jerky. I hear it is tasty.

Seriously, dirt bike or dual sport - it does not matter. If shtf I doubt that you would care that the bike is not licensed for the road.

In the case you mention it would not matter. But you couldn't ride a dirt bike on the road for any training or route testing. Easy to find a licensed dual sport on CL.

 

[DuneHopper]

A few observations...

Meanwhile places like Argentina, the former USSR, yea things got bad, but it never turned into a zombie apocalypse with people setting light to vast swaths of moscow or buenos aires, with bodies piled up in the streets like cordwood and RPG toting gangs driving around in hi-lux pickups.

Oh great, guess I will throw away my 12ga Zombie zappers hehehe

 

[just dan]

In the case you mention it would not matter. But you couldn't ride a dirt bike on the road for any training or route testing. Easy to find a licensed dual sport on CL.

while i agree it's easy to find a license dual sport on CL ('specially this time of year), don't doubt that you can ride a dirt bike on the road. i do it all the time in Portland. head/tail/brake light, no other road parts, pure dirt bike. as a note, i collect/build/buy/sell motorcycles as a hobby... so in part i do this for "work"... but i regularly commute on bikes like this.

second, in WA- it is now easy easy easy to register a dirt bike on the street. you will need all road going items (high/low beam, tail/brake light, signals, horn, at least one rear view mirror). quick inspection, done.
law changed earlier this year.
this is often cheaper than buying something that's already reg'd if you don't mind doing a bit of work (and footwork).... and depending on your desires can get you something superior to the vast majority of true dual sports (read: fat heavy poor performing pigs) out there. there are some damn good dual sports... but for my money i'd much rather have an XR600r. i know from experience i can rip across a desert for hours on end without a problem on one. the $ spend on that wouldn't buy an equivalent performing dual sport.

one thing i keep thinking about; if you're using a dirtbike (or any motorcyle, car, anything) for trips to/from your bug out location... particularly for getting supplies in a post SHTF situation... you're leaving tracks. tracks that someone can follow. plus the noise. even "quiet" motorcycles are not very quiet when the surrounding sound is gone. electricity goes out, no cars on the road; you're quiet motorcycle will be heard for quite a distance. may be difficult to pinpoint where, particularly in the wooded areas... but not exactly pure stealth.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I have a Suzuki 650 E and my gal has a Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250.. both street legal enduros. My 650 has a handlebar carrier for a rifle and I can mount egg crates on the rear carriers to carry packs, water and extra fuel. The 5 liter East Block surplus gas cans work great

 

[Just Jim]

OP, you are missing the best way to travel and probably the safest way to get to your destination. You live one hundred miles from your BOL and if you have to walk you will burn up more food than you can carry. Plus you will have to walk in areas that are very dangerouse.

To travel from Spingfield to east of Salem in the hills will take you at least ten days with out problems. Can you hike ten days without foot problems? Think a bit and get back to me and I will tell you a route that saves you pain. If you have allready figured it out then don't worry about getting back to me.

 

[DuneHopper]

WCS, a BOL should be no more then 1-2 days max travel time if that. The problem is if you are counting on a motorized vehicle you must have fuel and even small trail bikes will run out after around 100 miles not to mention noise and noticeably.

The issues are pretty cut and dry, you must have realistic expectation of getting from where you are at any given time to the BOL.
Vehicles are nice etc, but you may lose access to them, or be to far away to get to them safely.

Survival 101, think small, pack small look small go father.
It is basic physics, energy use can not exceed its required reserves. be it food, water or fuel, if you base your survival on one plan to get you were you want to go, the plan is flawed as Murphy law will and does play a part when we last want it to.
Say you have it all planned out, vehicle, stashed fuel, and food and a way to get to it. What if you vehicle fails and that plan goes out the window.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

We have only 40 miles via back gravel roads to make our BUG location, unless we are further away than basic merchants. I am planning on disabling the headlights and other lights(on/off switch) on the enduros and doing night moves if it comes to that and we have to abandon the big rig (huge F350 box truck)

Modern enduros are very quiet

 

[Cortes]

OP, you are missing the best way to travel and probably the safest way to get to your destination. You live one hundred miles from your BOL and if you have to walk you will burn up more food than you can carry. Plus you will have to walk in areas that are very dangerouse.

To travel from Spingfield to east of Salem in the hills will take you at least ten days with out problems. Can you hike ten days without foot problems? Think a bit and get back to me and I will tell you a route that saves you pain. If you have allready figured it out then don't worry about getting back to me.

Oooh, Oooh, pick me!!!

Canoe down the Willamette river? That would get you most of the way.

WCS, a BOL should be no more then 1-2 days max travel time if that. The problem is if you are counting on a motorized vehicle you must have fuel and even small trail bikes will run out after around 100 miles not to mention noise and noticeably.

The issues are pretty cut and dry, you must have realistic expectation of getting from where you are at any given time to the BOL.
Vehicles are nice etc, but you may lose access to them, or be to far away to get to them safely.

Survival 101, think small, pack small look small go father.
It is basic physics, energy use can not exceed its required reserves. be it food, water or fuel, if you base your survival on one plan to get you were you want to go, the plan is flawed as Murphy law will and does play a part when we last want it to.
Say you have it all planned out, vehicle, stashed fuel, and food and a way to get to it. What if you vehicle fails and that plan goes out the window.

You are So Not Fun.

Correct, but not fun.

So you are already in Douglas County. Any place to bug out from there, or are you already there?

 

[mjbskwim]

I was part of the emergency and disaster preparedness for our company just some tips we used to discuss and teach
I picked our top ten.


1. travel small groups or singly the larger the group the more attention is drawn to you..
2 .Take back roads the more less traveled or known the better.
3. do not use firearms to hunt or gather food unless necessary as it draws attention.
4. Travel between 4am and 6am as most people are hunkered down and a sleep and will not be patrolling or roaming.
5. Travel light as you can, the less you have the faster and less calories you burn.
6. Avoid stores for food and supplies it is often were people will watch for activity.
7. travel close to hills not valleys, people looking from above cannot see you and people below can not see you it may take you slightly longer to travel a hill edge but you have a better chance on not being seen.
8. Pets are not for travel, even dogs will and can draw attention to you, make sure you realize the repercussions of your pet weight benefits vs concerns.
9. If you must make a fire do so before dark and after light a 1 foot fire can be seen over 1/2 mile at night even through brush.
10. Water must be your highest priority to bring or access as you hike out of a city you will sweat and need water and water is an areas you want to avoid ( homes, stores etc).

Remember people change when they are hungry, and thirsty or need your jacket or shoes.
Travel to not be noticed ( unless you want to be ) is your best and safest way to get out of the city.
If you want to be seen reverse most of what was said.

1) True,plus there is more chance of someone losing it and blowing everything
2)Not so true,as there are always locals that travel the back roads and know all the vantage points.These will be perfect for ambushing travelers.Know the layout of the roads you will travel and remember the ambush points
3) I bow hunt,cross bows are good too
4)Just remember tweekers never sleep
5)good
6)Yeah no shmidt
7)got nothing
8)Yeah could be good to alarm you *IF* you have yourself a smart dog
9)Yeah I'd say bypass cooking and fires as much as possible after dark
10)

Mainly just wanted to touch on the roads part,but thought I'd keep going. Good stuff.

And about people changing?
Make sure you are one of the first to change. Don't have to be a bastard,but you better start forgetting being nice to most.

Kindness= perceived weakness
Now will not be the time for testing. Let them know as soon as approached your not interested in being buddies

 

[ArgentineSteel]

Lots of good info in this thread except for this.

I have taken a good look at lots of mules. From every possible angle. I used to pack them professionally in the sierras as a guide. Unless you are an expert with them, and the mule gets worked all the time, forget it. Hobby/pasture/pet mules are worthless. They know damned well that their job is to roam around the pasture, eat, poop, fart, roll in the mud, and bite & kick each other just for fun.

Try Llamas Better attitude.

Always wanted a llama to pack with.

 

[Widerstand]

I think planning is key for a situation like this where you will be traveling. Make sure you have enough fuel in cans to get to said location and then some, have multiple routes pre-planned out and drive them a head of time and make note where things are along the way, have a secondary location also planned out.

If you have to lets say cross the cascades from Eugene to Bend in winter, and St. Helen's or Hood went off and the ash is dropping you may not be able to drive those roads.

The more you plan, the better off you will be.

 

[ATCclears]

3 days of Rioting and Looting across Argentina | The Modern Survivalist

"What to do when something like this happens, you may ask? Stay put, leave lights on so that its clear your house isn't unoccupied ready for easy picking. Hopefully, have a firearm in case anyone is feeling particularly courageous and needs some flying lead to be remembered of his own mortality. "Ferfal, should I bug out, make a run for it, as seen on this or that reality tv show?" Leaving a defendable position is pretty stupid to begin with. Then there's the problem of traffic jams due to the rioting and probably some roadblocks. Being stuck in traffic is bad. Being stuck in traffic during a lawless riot is even worse. I've seen how they start robbing and carjacking everyone stuck in traffic, going car by car robbing everyone's wallets, purses, jewelry and cell phones. You also risk getting pulled out of your vehicle, getting beaten, even killed. So no, stay put."

 

[notazombie]

Make sure you have enough fuel in cans to get to said location and then some.

And keep it rotated. What is being called "fuel" these days doesn't have the shelf life that it used to. It'd be pretty disappointing to dump a 5 gallon can of separated water, rust and ethanol into your vehicle and make it unusable in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Widerstand]

And keep it rotated. What is being called "fuel" these days doesn't have the shelf life that it used to. It'd be pretty disappointing to dump a 5 gallon can of separated water, rust and ethanol into your vehicle and make it unusable in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah you got to cycle through it and keep it fresh, there are a few places in Portland that sell ethanol free gas which is good if you are going to try and store it longer, runs better in chainsaw...etc. as well.