Traveling in post SHTF situations

[Hook686]

Better than a mountain bike:

 

[RBid]

You will have time.

Oregon is a nearly perfect place to live. For a multitude of reasons, we are a truly horrible choice of a target. Being in Springfield, you benefit from creep. To clarify: people who operate in Condition White will not accept what does not fit their concept of possibility.

In the event of disaster, there will be two kinds of immediate reactions:

1. Curious circulation. "What's happening?" Calling friends, family, etc-- communicating, to try to make sense of things.

2. "Do something". For most people, this will mean, "call for help", or "go to help". Nearly all people will congregate, rather than spreading out (in the short term). If you've ever been in a fire drill or emergency of any kind, you've seen people seek answers. They rush to TVs, group together to talk about what's going on when fire alarms go off, huddle during violent outbreaks, etc.


While this happens, it should be no harder to get out of town than it is for city people to get to work during rush hour. In fact, it should be considerably easier.


If something were to happen, you are likely to have less competition for routes out of town than we have during rush hour in the city. Even if one route is out, you will have options.

Of course, bugging out is pretty extreme. In most cases, staying in is better.

 

[slimmer13]

You will have time.

Oregon is a nearly perfect place to live. For a multitude of reasons, we are a truly horrible choice of a target. Being in Springfield, you benefit from creep. To clarify: people who operate in Condition White will not accept what does not fit their concept of possibility.

In the event of disaster, there will be two kinds of immediate reactions:

1. Curious circulation. "What's happening?" Calling friends, family, etc-- communicating, to try to make sense of things.

2. "Do something". For most people, this will mean, "call for help", or "go to help". Nearly all people will congregate, rather than spreading out (in the short term). If you've ever been in a fire drill or emergency of any kind, you've seen people seek answers. They rush to TVs, group together to talk about what's going on when fire alarms go off, huddle during violent outbreaks, etc.


While this happens, it should be no harder to get out of town than it is for city people to get to work during rush hour. In fact, it should be considerably easier.


If something were to happen, you are likely to have less competition for routes out of town than we have during rush hour in the city. Even if one route is out, you will have options.

Of course, bugging out is pretty extreme. In most cases, staying in is better.

Dont really buy it.

 

[PiratePast40]

^^^ Houston area?

 

[slimmer13]

I think so, but the fact remains, whether Houston or a city in OR or WA, if you dont have a head start after an event that requires evacuation or "bugging out", you will be right in the middle of all the other throngs of people. There is a very short window to get out before the mass migration, so every second counts and have a backup plan and a backup to your backup.

 

[Itmann]

best way to get around in an harsh environment such as one ravaged by an earthquake is a ROKON. A two wheel drive motorbike that's half tractor. You can pull a heavy trailer over rocks, up hills and over almost anything. Use it for hunting now, bugging out after the big one...

 

[oknow]

Better than a mountain bike:

at least for 1 tank full

 

[EZLivin]

Yeah, you and a million others.
I'd say bug in unless you absolutely MUST leave. Buggin in means more safety, all your preps, water, shelter, etc.

That is for sure. Seems to me bugging out ought to be way down the line for most disasters/events as far as plans go. (Like Plan D, E, F, whatever.) Unless one lives dead-center in the typical areas wher rioting and violence traditionally break out with little cause, the chances are you will be safer right where you are if you have made a decent plan. And if one lives in one of those high-violence areas then why not move to a safer neighborhood NOW. I think bugging out from work to home makes sense as "Plan A," especially if it is a family who is separated in the daytime, but it seems like folks who constantly and predominantly focus on bugging out are creating a fanciful Hollywood script rather than focusing efforts on more effective and logical "Plan A or Plan B" plans.

 

[ArgentineSteel]

Lived in CO for years, when we had an "event" {Blizzards are common} traffic was terrible, but you tried to make it home. Bugging in.

Afterwards as the snow stopped, you couldn't make the highway. Abandoned cars were blocking the routes to the highway, if you wanted to get to work, take the back roads, which while not cleared as often, were less apt to have derelict vehicles blocking the plows. I expect the same in a panic.

Here we get the occasional blow that fells trees. If your not bugged in before it begins, I doubt that travel would be easy. You will need to stop with a chain saw and tow cable every dozen yards. {Yes I have seen that also}

The Earthquake scenario will happen, we're over due for a really major one, and we aren't built for it. Hope it doesn't coincide with a nearby volcano eruption. Volcanoes provide more warning, but still are hard to avoid. Roads may be passable, yet any good sized stream will be impossible as bridges will fail across the state. Portland and Seattle with all those raised highways? Good luck.

As has been stated, if you are not at your bug out location when TSHTF happens, you're not going anywhere for a while.

 

[RBid]

Slimer,

Excellent pic to represent Springfield, OR. Spot on, sir. I stand corrected.

 

[slimmer13]

Slimer,

Excellent pic to represent Springfield, OR. Spot on, sir. I stand corrected.

The pic was not meant to represent a specific city but was meant to refute this premise:

In the event of disaster, there will be two kinds of immediate reactions:

1. Curious circulation. "What's happening?" Calling friends, family, etc-- communicating, to try to make sense of things.

2. "Do something". For most people, this will mean, "call for help", or "go to help". Nearly all people will congregate, rather than spreading out (in the short term). If you've ever been in a fire drill or emergency of any kind, you've seen people seek answers. They rush to TVs, group together to talk about what's going on when fire alarms go off, huddle during violent outbreaks, etc.

But it should be mentioned that Springfield is what 2 hrs from Portland?

 

[Hook686]

at least for 1 tank full

One tankful (12 gallons) will take you 150 miles. How far is it to your bug out location ? With a 240# pilot load it depends upon how much you weigh. A 200# pilot has 40# for extra gasoline. That will take him another 80 miles. The plus here is no license is needed to fly one of these. If you got the bucks it certainly seems the best way to get out of Dodge to me.

Mosquito Aviation - Home of the Ultimate Ultralight Helicopter : Accessories

 

[RBid]

Slimer,

You do recognize that the picture you provided is drawn from a metro area with a population greater than the population of Oregon? The entirety of Lane County has a population of 350,000.

That aside:

What happened when the Towers went down?

People sought information. Eyes glued to televisions.

What happens when a police officer pulls someone over?

People seek information. They slow down and rubberneck.

Rodney King Riots?

People all over the country plugged into televisions.


This is human nature. We are social creatures. Our tendency is to congregate. Many people feel safer when surrounded by other people. People in Condition White want to rationalize events in their minds, and build to a conclusion that everything will be OK. It isn't until that ability is taken away from them, when things are evidently NOT going to be OK, that they become manic. In order to conclude that they must flee their homes, most people will need an indication that nobody is coming to save them or fix things.

This all stems from the same core concept that makes people say things like, "I live in a safe town. I don't need ____."

It is, what it is.

 

[Grunwald]

Slimer,

You do recognize that the picture you provided is drawn from a metro area with a population greater than the population of Oregon? The entirety of Lane County has a population of 350,000.

That aside:

What happened when the Towers went down?

People sought information. Eyes glued to televisions.

What happens when a police officer pulls someone over?

People seek information. They slow down and rubberneck.

Rodney King Riots?

People all over the country plugged into televisions.


This is human nature. We are social creatures. Our tendency is to congregate. Many people feel safer when surrounded by other people. People in Condition White want to rationalize events in their minds, and build to a conclusion that everything will be OK. It isn't until that ability is taken away from them, when things are evidently NOT going to be OK, that they become manic. In order to conclude that they must flee their homes, most people will need an indication that nobody is coming to save them or fix things.

This all stems from the same core concept that makes people say things like, "I live in a safe town. I don't need ____."

It is, what it is.

Depends on the situation (type of event) and the population itself. In NYC when the towers went down,most people had no idea what happened and it wss a single occurance that was only personally witnessed limited few. The rest of the population of NYC (and the world) learned about it from the news media and frantic calls received from family and friends. Also majoriy of the population that lives in NYC does not have cars.

Now lets take a look at New Orleans. We had days of warning and while many stayed in the city and while lot of people tried to bug out. There were news reports of the traffic jams on the highways heading north and the fact that cars were running dry (out of fuel) and a discussion of the need to have the ability for mobil refuling or the entire highway system will get blocked by disabled cars.

 

[Rufusbob]

For a clear vision of what will happen within days of any major regional, national or global breakdown we have to look no further than Somalia or New Orleans after Katrina. Folks will become predators or prey, all in a few days. While supplies will be vital, they will also make those that posses them a target. The best tactic will be to have a Capable, well equipped group that can assemble quickly at a defensible location. A few people in the woods with food, weapons and ammunition will be quickly overwhelmed by organized thugs.

 

[Grunwald]

For a clear vision of what will happen within days of any major regional, national or global breakdown we have to look no further than Somalia or New Orleans after Katrina. Folks will become predators or prey, all in a few days. While supplies will be vital, they will also make those that posses them a target. The best tactic will be to have a Capable, well equipped group that can assemble quickly at a defensible location. A few people in the woods with food, weapons and ammunition will be quickly overwhelmed by organized thugs.

Depends on who those few people are.

 

[Cortes]

Sounds like the OPs BOL is in eastern Oregon? I'd take a good look at a mule, go take a class on how to pack it and tend for it along the way. Even if you viewed the mule as 'disposable,' which I would never advocate but even if you did a good mule will get you 200 or 300 miles over mountains, deserts, forests and whatever else with minimal care. Again, I think that is a low down way to treat an animal but if we're talking SHTF then you gotta do what you gotta do.

Lots of good info in this thread except for this.

I have taken a good look at lots of mules. From every possible angle. I used to pack them professionally in the sierras as a guide. Unless you are an expert with them, and the mule gets worked all the time, forget it. Hobby/pasture/pet mules are worthless. They know damned well that their job is to roam around the pasture, eat, poop, fart, roll in the mud, and bite & kick each other just for fun.

Good luck trying to get them to do other than what they know their job is to do. A working mule that works all the time is a pleasure. He knows his job and does it. A pet mule is a waste of feed and will hurt you just to prove his point. And he won't work at all once he gets up in the mountains and is short of feed.

Second, look at a dual sport bike.

Now this, is an excellent idea. You still have to maintain it and train with it, but if you leave it in the garage all winter it won't get fat and then pissy the first time you try to put something on it's back. Something like a Yamaha TW200 would work great for this. Get your luggage and load all figured out and tested ahead of time.

Really important: Any motorized vehicle you need to depend on that you don't regulary operate, you must

1. Keep it on a battery tender so the battery is always conditioned and topped off.

2. Only keep non-ethanol fuel in it that has been treated with PRI-G or Stabil.

That way when you really need it to go, it will. The mule will just tell you to f-off. Been there, got the scars.

 

[Grunwald]

Lots of good info in this thread except for this.

I have taken a good look at lots of mules. From every possible angle. I used to pack them professionally in the sierras as a guide. Unless you are an expert with them, and the mule gets worked all the time, forget it. Hobby/pasture/pet mules are worthless. They know damned well that their job is to roam around the pasture, eat, poop, fart, roll in the mud, and bite & kick each other just for fun.

Good luck trying to get them to do other than what they know their job is to do. A working mule that works all the time is a pleasure. He knows his job and does it. A pet mule is a waste of feed and will hurt you just to prove his point. And he won't work at all once he gets up in the mountains and is short of feed.




Now this, is an excellent idea. You still have to maintain it and train with it, but if you leave it in the garage all winter it won't get fat and then pissy the first time you try to put something on it's back. Something like a Yamaha TW200 would work great for this. Get your luggage and load all figured out and tested ahead of time.

Really important: Any motorized vehicle you need to depend on that you don't regulary operate, you must

1. Keep it on a battery tender so the battery is always conditioned and topped off.

2. Only keep non-ethanol fuel in it that has been treated with PRI-G or Stabil.

That way when you really need it to go, it will. The mule will just tell you to f-off. Been there, got the scars.

Get both. You can eat the mule. Lol

 

[Grunwald]

Seriously, dirt bike or dual sport - it does not matter. If shtf I doubt that you would care that the bike is not licensed for the road.

 

[quesodilla]

Very good reading. Here are some more thoughts as I have not created a full plan yet. And may not. We can try to plan for every situation but there can be a variable that counters each one. I try to keep it as simple as possible If I store all kinds of food then have to bug out for whatever reason and leave it, it could be wasted time and money. I am not saying I dont want to stockpile, I am just trying to be mindful of what and how I do it. If I worry too much about "cash" This stuff will become worthless in many situations. I am going to rely more on some precious metals like brass, lead, and copper. If ya know what I mean.
My GHB has some work to be done but as it stands I have a change of cloths,ammo,flashlight,batteries and maybe a few other things. I want to get some jerky in there maybe granola parachute cord. Like I said I am still working on it. If I put too much thought into everything or every situation I think I will be overwhelmed and need a pack mule for my GHB.