So ice no power no cell no net no cable

[fd15k]

I've never owned or driven a land vehicle that would go 1K miles on a single tank of fuel, nor even seen one that could go 1K miles using onboard fuel that could also refuel in 5 minutes.

I do however, plan to build one that can go 1K miles with onboard fuel - my diesel powered truck that I plan to convert to an RV, adding another diesel tank and two propane cylinders. I doubt I could refuel it in 5 minutes though.

That's fine. My point is, while some additional improvements to EVs will still happen, two things likely won't :
most mass produced EVs will likely not be made to go more than 500mi on a charge, and manufacturers are more likely to settle on 350-400 mark
EVs will never fully charge as quickly as 5 minutes

 

[Certaindeaf]

Cut out the middleman and go straight diesel-electric like a train.
Much more efficient than transmitting that power long distance and then storing it in batteries.

 

[The Heretic]

I did this at one time. I discontinued the practice. Try moving 55 gallons of gasoline should the need arise. Without a forklift, that is. Most localities limit amounts of gasoline that you may legally store upon your property. 25 gallons in 5 gal. containers is pretty typical.

My drum is on a dolly, but I rarely move it. I just have to be careful not to tip it over. I just use the dolly for moving it small distances around the shop.

Should I need to I have the proper equipment to move the drum further though, that and much more.



I do have the cans too - much more convenient for chores and refueling vehicles.

 

[fd15k]

Cut out the middleman and go straight diesel-electric like a train.
Much more efficient than transmitting that power long distance and then storing it in batteries.

Yes, because diesel jumps out of the ground and straight into your fuel tank. It's also in unlimited supply...

How long will world's oil reserves last? 53 years, says BP

The world has 53.3 years left to find an alternative to oil before current proved reserves run dry, according to BP. Of course, nations are finding new oil – meaning that number is rising – but new extraction methods are costly and can pose environmental threats.

www.csmonitor.com

There are many claims with varying but somewhat similar time tables. I'm not sure how much impact most folks here will feel in their lifetimes, but a thing to remember that Earth's population is growing, and they won't all be jumping to EVs either

 

[The Heretic]

That's fine. My point is, while some additional improvements to EVs will still happen, two things likely won't :
most mass produced EVs will likely not be made to go more than 500mi on a charge, and manufacturers are more likely to settle on 350-400 mark
EVs will never fully charge as quickly as 5 minutes

Never say never.

Battery tech is evolving. There are hybrid batteries (batteries and super conductors) and new batteries that show promise to recharge much much faster than current tech, while at the same time storing twice as much energy and being much less prone to fire.

Currently recharge time and distance are issues, especially during cold weather which can drastically reduce the amount of energy the battery stores/delivers per charge and therefore reduces the distance.

But my bet is that within ten years EVs will be as ubiquitous as gasoline vehicles are today, so will recharge stations, and recharge time will be roughly equivalent to refuel time, if not faster. The market is driving this (yes gov regs are too) - there is profit to be made and a means to the end will be found. All the big players are putting a serious investment into EVs.

OTOH - yes, people will have recharging at home - I certainly would - and for most daily driving that will be adequate. Personally, disconnecting from fossil fuels would be a big advantage to me, not to mention the ability to use the vehicle as at least a partial backup for home power.

But for longer trips owners of EVs won't be able to recharge at home, they will need recharging stations somewhere along the route and it will need to be faster than 8 hours - especially if the range of the vehicle is less than 300 miles (I have several times driven over twice that in one day - yes I was usually doing well over the speed limit, but if we get autonomous vehicles the speed limits might increase significantly on super highways).

 

[Hook686]

Some comments on the comments. As it pertains to us. Moving power under ground in our 130 year old neighborhood would be a night mare and I work for a co. that does underground so I know. we have no real shoulders on the streets a couple so tight people stop to let others go by.open ditches right close to the street in places. And 2ft down from Oct to July the ground is soaking wet.

In the 33 years we have lived here this is first time power has been out more then 24 hours. So a big investment in electrical generation would be a hard sell for me. We used to have a big loud 4000watt genset but the only time I ever fired it up the power was back on before the first tank was half gone. The little Wen 2000watt 4 stroke real quiet generator I have coming will run the fridge and pellet stove. And get used in the offroad camp trailer I am building next winter. And it was less then $400. I am seriously thinking about cladding the big freezer with 2" foam after seeing what it did for the water heater.

Though I will no longer have a huge beautiful Red Maple to clean up each fall I will get my little chainsaw back running (fubar fuel pickup hose).
The two lithium jump start batteries we have are great for charging the phones about threes each.

We were hoping to have power late today but that doesn't look likely now.

How did you get cable service in ?

 

[fd15k]

Never say never.

Battery tech is evolving. There are hybrid batteries (batteries and super conductors) and new batteries that show promise to recharge much much faster than current tech, while at the same time storing twice as much energy and being much less prone to fire.

Yes, and we will all have flying cars in 5 years from now.

Now, battery tech aside. Consider this simple data point... EV efficiency is pretty much at its theoretical peak at about 300Wh per mile. For a 500mi vehicle that means 150KWh battery pack. To charge that in 5 minutes (in this hypothetical no limit on the cells) we're talking 1.8MW of power. Some of the most coolest EV tech currently uses 800V architecture, that makes the current about 2,250A... I'd say electricians here would appreciate the proposition

 

[gmerkt]

I do have the cans too - much more convenient for chores and refueling vehicles.

Yes, I found the small containers to be a much better situation for my purposes. One thought I had was, if you have a problem with a large container, it's a much bigger thing to deal with all at once than a smaller vessel.

OTOH - yes, people will have recharging at home - I certainly would - and for most daily driving that will be adequate. Personally, disconnecting from fossil fuels would be a big advantage to me, not to mention the ability to use the vehicle as at least a partial backup for home power.

Yeah, I see them down at the Tesla charging station at Fred Meyer. They pay lots of money for their new cars, then sit in a parking lot while it charges. I wouldn't go for that. I don't know the exact cost of a home charger, but I'd guess about a couple of grand. Surely someone who buys a Tesla S model could afford that.

On busy days, they have to line up to use the charger at Fred Meyer. So the exact charge time is compounded by this factor.

Another note re. EV's. I don't know personally, but I've read that over time they are less expensive to maintain than fossil fuel vehicles.

I'm not ready to give up my 72 Ford Ranch Wagon (170K miles) nor my 04 Crown Victoria (144K miles) but a new EV might be down the road should I live long enough.

 

[partsed]

finally got power back after about 96 hours this evening. friday at around 10:30pm to tuesday at around 10-ish pm. whole house was running on generator on and off sometimes for 6-7hr stretches. used around 15 gal of gasoline. whew!

We got power back early Tuesday morning and my buddies (one of which lives west of I-5 outside of Aurora) is still without power and the other is in Barlow/99E and is out too!! Rumor is they won't see power until Friday at the earliest..

 

[fd15k]

I don't know the exact cost of a home charger, but I'd guess about a couple of grand.

Most "chargers" are under $500. However, they aren't actually chargers - they're just fancy 240VAC plugs that tell the vehicle the amperage of the circuit it's connected to. It is possible to do it without one of those. Also, in reality the most expensive part of home charging is having an electrician setup a dedicated 50 or 60 A circuit.

 

[arakboss]

That's a common myth. The daily demand curve for electricity is at its lowest from 10PM-6AM, when most people would be charging their cars.

Good one. I guess all these charging stations popping up in parking lots everywhere are only going to be used at night.

Edit: And regardless of when most people are charging their cars, if the power goes out, they won't be charging them day or night.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yes, because diesel jumps out of the ground and straight into your fuel tank. It's also in unlimited supply...

How long will world's oil reserves last? 53 years, says BP

The world has 53.3 years left to find an alternative to oil before current proved reserves run dry, according to BP. Of course, nations are finding new oil – meaning that number is rising – but new extraction methods are costly and can pose environmental threats.

www.csmonitor.com

There are many claims with varying but somewhat similar time tables. I'm not sure how much impact most folks here will feel in their lifetimes, but a thing to remember that Earth's population is growing, and they won't all be jumping to EVs either

The Rocky Mountains in the continental United States are made of oil shale and contain more energy than the earth's combined crude oil reserves.

 

[Mark W.]

How did you get cable service in ?

Cable is overhead Wave, Zipply fiber and Frontier are all on the poles.

 

[fd15k]

Good one. I guess all these charging stations popping up in parking lots everywhere are only going to be used at night.

A couple of hundred of those in mall parking lots may seem like "everywhere", but they're nothing compared to the population size of the same area. Many of them aren't free, so cheapskates won't be using them. And finally, most of them are wired at 24A, so they don't even pull all that much juice. Yes, it may seem like you had a good point, but you need to dig a bit deeper.

 

[arakboss]

The Rocky Mountains in the continental United States are made of oil shale and contain more energy than the earth's combined crude oil reserves.

Diversification is strength. If we depend on electricity for all our energy needs, then God help us during the next Carrington type event or other major grid failure situation.

 

[arakboss]

A couple of hundred of those in mall parking lots may seem like "everywhere", but they're nothing compared to the population size of the same area. Many of them aren't free, so cheapskates won't be using them. And finally, most of them are wired at 24A, so they don't even pull all that much juice. Yes, it may seem like you had a good point, but you need to dig a bit deeper.

There should be a couple hundred per parking lot if everybody is really driving electric cars. I honestly don't think it will happen.

 

[fd15k]

There should be a couple hundred per parking lot if everybody is really driving electric cars. I honestly don't think it will happen.

It's unnecessary. People will mostly charge at home, and some will charge at public charging stations when taking longer trips. This problem has already been solved. The few "destination" chargers here and there are mostly for marketing and also for convincing naive folks they won't run out of "gas" if they switch to EVs.

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's unnecessary. People will mostly charge at home, and some will charge at public charging stations when taking longer trips. This problem has already been solved. The few "destination" chargers here and there are mostly for marketing and also for convincing naive folks they won't run out of "gas" if they switch to EVs.

There'll be a quantum leap in tech that'll make these incremental musings quant and obsolete.

 

[fd15k]

There'll be a quantum leap in tech that'll make these incremental musings quant and obsolete.

Yes, teleportation.

 

[dfisher1981]

So government mandated emissions like California's zero emissions standard by 2035 has nothing to do with GM or any other vehicle maker making decisions about moving out of gasoline powered cars? Kidding right? Hard to sell a product thats illegal. By just a California zero emissions standard you cut out 10% of the population of the USA to own a gas vehicle. I don't feel most average Americans would even dream about owning only electric means of transportation currently. Electric cars need to come a LONG way before then. I am sure car makers have high hopes of the government pushing zero emissions and some sort of huge tax credit or some sort of incentive as the government forces people into them as its the only thing available.

15 years is a long time. 15 years ago people were using Motorola flip-phones and typing text messages on number pads. 15 years from now electric vehicles will be the default option and the people clinging to their gas vehicles (outside of classic collectors cars) will look like the people pulling out a flip-phone in 2021.