So ice no power no cell no net no cable

[The Heretic]

If you get that 55 gal drum for storing gas.... be sure to fill it with non ethanol 92 octane gas. Also add some fuel stabilizer. The gas will stay good for about a year. Store the drum in an outbuilding away from your house. You will then eventually need to use the gas in your vehicle. It's a real pain to do this, compared to filling up at the gas station.

I have a rotary pump, but I should get a 12V pump. That said, I try to keep my tank full on my daily driver (which I rarely drive now that I am semi-retired and will never have to go into the office anymore), occasionally putting some gas in my pickup, and using most of the gas for the 2 wheel tractor, chain saw, etc., which I usually fill from the 5 gallon cans, but when they run out I fill those from the drum.

Right now the main consumption is the generator.

 

[BigDog67]

The only time we have been without power in the 35 years we have been out on our property was after the fire 8 years ago. The rest of the time it's just those annoying "blips" that cause all the digital clocks to flash 12:00. I do have two large propane heaters, camp stoves and lanterns just in case, but it is not a major concern. And I really don't care if I have "net" access or not, so my battery radio I listen to at work is fine. All in all, power is a huge convenience, but I CAN live without it.

 

[Holepuncher]

I got some of that down at the Astro last year.. regular gas was around $3/ga and low ocane non ethanol was $8/ga so that'd be $450/50 gallons.

Around here in eastern Wa. non ethanol costs about $1gal. more than the ethanol gas. I'm not familiar with the Astro. Is that a gas station? $8 gal. sounds way too expensive!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Around here in eastern Wa. non ethanol costs about $1gal. more than the ethanol gas. I'm not familiar with the Astro. Is that a gas station? $8 gal. sounds way too expensive!

Yea, it's pretty nuts.. I think that Astro is Chevron.

 

[JedB]

That's understandable. Now if you can also provide the costs of repairs over some period of time per foot of install, and also the invisible cost of degradation of quality of life for the population and effect on economic activity due to outages for the full picture. Those last data points may be a lot harder to come by, and while there is likely a study out there, the main point is those things shouldn't be discounted.

While I agree that those things do need to be taken into account, they usually are not.
1) No real data was available (as it related to my job, in telecom, for fiber buildouts)
2) Project Budgets usually don't get to include future savings as a metric for evaluation. (shortsighted, IMO)
3) Buried was *not* a specification of the mobile companies (TMO, ATT, Sprint, VZW), cost per tower was.

Please keep in mind that this is my direct experience with telecom, not power grid. I'm pretty sure there are different variables for power line construction.

Also, how would you value a non-event for your customer? If it doesn't break..no 'event.'

 

[The Heretic]

I have been here in this neighborhood for only ~9 years but AFAIK the neighborhood has been here at least 23 years, probably more. I have not heard of anyone say there was ever a single problem with the buried lines.

The only problem I know about is getting PGE to put my transformer on a stable platform or at least on flat ground. They came out several times and said they would do that and never have - despite saying it needs to be done. I can't do it, I am not allowed to touch it.

 

[wjv]

I love underground lines. In the ~9 years I have lived here I don't know of any problems we have had with the power lines on our private road,

In 20 years we have had maybe 5-6 power outages, the longest lasting maybe 2 hours. The other times it's a 20 minutes or less situation.

 

[USMC1911]

That's understandable. Now if you can also provide the costs of repairs over some period of time per foot of install, and also the invisible cost of degradation of quality of life for the population and effect on economic activity due to outages for the full picture. Those last data points may be a lot harder to come by, and while there is likely a study out there, the main point is those things shouldn't be discounted.

Cost to comsumer would temper your expectations quickly. Passing the cost of underground for new construction is easy as you make the developer eat the cost. Passing on the cost for existing construction is much much harder. Most power companies are for profit so the cost of upgrade to existing is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher bill. I do some bidding for SDGE and underground is about 5-6x more expensive in general. Not sure the cost is justified for this very infrequent size of outage.

 

[The Heretic]

Every hour I do not work due to a power or internet outage, that is $55 I don't earn.

For the past month or so, I have had 4 power outages (including this one) and one internet outage.

Current outage is costing me about $5 an hour in fuel, not including wear and tear on the genset.

Today, the client had a data center issue so I am waiting to be able to connect to their servers. It is looking like I may not get any work done today.

Stuff happens, but I do not mind paying extra for fewer interruptions. Clients are not always understanding about power/internet outages, especially when they are three thousand miles away. That's why I invested in a UPS and a new genset - they are tax deductible too.

 

[fd15k]

Cost to comsumer would temper your expectations quickly. Passing the cost of underground for new construction is easy as you make the developer eat the cost. Passing on the cost for existing construction is much much harder. Most power companies are for profit so the cost of upgrade to existing is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher bill. I do some bidding for SDGE and underground is about 5-6x more expensive in general. Not sure the cost is justified for this very infrequent size of outage.

We do send helicopters to rescue stupid people from the mountain tops. Some would argue that's not necessary, but we carry this burden as a developed society. This power outage is no different - we're not just talking lack of lights, easily compensated with battery lanterns or even candles. People don't have heating, some can't operate medical devices, and kids can't do remote schooling. I would say this is bigger than just costs. And as you pointed out, power companies are for-profit operations... except they operate in a privileged market with no competition, thus they can be forced to step up once in a while.

 

[The Heretic]

My power has been restored!

I didn't even noticed because of the sunny day - until I walked into the other room and noticed lights were on

 

[titsonritz]

I use "green" solar energy so I'm not worried about it.

 

[BigDog67]

I love underground lines.

I love them too. I get $50+ an hour to mess up your daily drive while the guys are putting them in. I LOVE Public Works jobs! I have cabinets full of rifles thanks to them.

 

[wjv]

I LOVE Public Works jobs! I have cabinets full of rifles thanks to them.

Shhh! You lost them all in a tragic "boating accident". Remember?

 

[BigDog67]

Shhh! You lost them all in a tragic "boating accident". Remember?

Actually it was a tragic wildfire. And I DID lose a couple cabinets of rifles. And I still have the poor burned bodies as proof.

 

[USMC1911]

We do send helicopters to rescue stupid people from the mountain tops. Some would argue that's not necessary, but we carry this burden as a developed society. This power outage is no different - we're not just talking lack of lights, easily compensated with battery lanterns or even candles. People don't have heating, some can't operate medical devices, and kids can't do remote schooling. I would say this is bigger than just costs. And as you pointed out, power companies are for-profit operations... except they operate in a privileged market with no competition, thus they can be forced to step up once in a while.

Some are some are not for profit. I think most people would prefer this type of very very to this degreed power outage over a huge increase in the bill they receive. FYI a good chunk of power currently out are is because of large transmission lines down. Trnsmission is even more impractical to put underground. Good rule of thumb for overhead transmission line cost is a million a mile in pretty good terrain. Helicopter work makes that work much more expensive.

 

[fd15k]

Some are some are not for profit. I think most people would prefer this type of very very to this degreed power outage over a huge increase in the bill they receive. FYI a good chunk of power currently out are is because of large transmission lines down. Trnsmission is even more impractical to put underground. Good rule of thumb for overhead transmission line cost is a million a mile in pretty good terrain. Helicopter work makes that work much more expensive.

Well, regardless of our opinions, we're largely the bystanders. I still have no power, and people started dying. Maybe some politicians will notice a problem, and maybe not. I have spoken

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

finally got power back after about 96 hours this evening. friday at around 10:30pm to tuesday at around 10-ish pm. whole house was running on generator on and off sometimes for 6-7hr stretches. used around 15 gal of gasoline. whew!

 

[dfisher1981]

At least we're not as incompetent as the people running Texas. Their power isn't down because of trees taking out power lines, but because their power plants didn't have the winterization needed to handle a storm of this magnitude.

4 MILLION households without power this morning, and another storm hitting them Wednesday (actually the same storm that just hit us in the NW).

Homes and buildings flooding from frozen pipes. 100+ car pileups. Hours long lines at grocery stores because people don't have fresh food at home. Gas stations without gas for your generator. People going on 4+ days without power with single digit temperatures all because they didn't prep their power plants for single digit temperatures. Total disaster (officially after Abbott asked Biden to declare TX a federal disaster area).

 

[arakboss]

The goal is to reduce the number of points of failure. If 20% of the lines are buried, that means potentially 20% less work for the crews. Additionally, many roads are blocked and non-power crews can't work on unblocking them due to presence of damaged power lines. I have no power since Friday night.

I am game for getting rid of power company monopolies but not goverment run power companies. So if Pacific power wants to come in to PGEs territory and set up a bunch of new fancy underground power lines, I say let them. Maybe xfinity and ziply will want to join in too. I hope the new competition reimburses homeowners generously for their inconvenience. Take a look at your water and sewer bills to see what government run utilities look like.

Edit: Alternatives to power company monopolies already exist, but often times local governments force homeowners to use whatever monopoly is operating in their local area. Alternative energy is one solution or going off grid. Good luck going off grid in most cities though. They will fine you up the wahzoo and eventually have you removed from your home. I am fortunate to have an off grid second home and I'm not beholden to any utility company there. The local government on the other hand could give me all kinds of grief for having an off grid home, if I ever get on their radar. Talk about ultimate monopoly, where is my option for different government leadership.