So ice no power no cell no net no cable

[The Heretic]

Diversification is strength. If we depend on electricity for all our energy needs, then God help us during the next Carrington type event or other major grid failure situation.

If we have a CME/EMP (or a Cascadian earthquake for that matter), the pumps at the gas stations probably won't be working, and even if they were, or we used hand pumps, the tanks will run empty fairly quickly since it is unlikely that they would get refilled.

The advantage of having an EV is that it can be recharged a number of ways. Solar, wind, generator, other batteries - a number of ways to recharge them at home (or wherever you are). Once the fossil fuels run out (due to a SHTF event) they are gone. You can maybe make some veggie diesel, but that only helps if you have a diesel that can run on it. Ditto with propane.

If SHTF, you can find some solar panels, wire them up and charge your batteries.

That said, those events happening, people will not be driving around a whole lot anyway. Right now, a tank of gas (16 gallons) lasts me for a month or more, more if I were more careful to only use the car if I absolutely need to. If I only went into town once a month, it could maybe last me 8-10 months. With 50-60 gallons at home, that could last me years if I am lucky to not need to go into town more often than once a month. So the point is kind of moot.

 

[Helocat]

Cable is overhead Wave, Zipply fiber and Frontier are all on the poles.

SpaceX is now taking reservations for Starlink for parts of the PNW. Saying mid to late 2021 to be available. I have a res. In for the gear, they claim it will be about 100mbs up and down. Power can be out, but space internet will be working.

We will see once they get it out for use. Concerns on reliability and if the martians will take out the satellites pre-invasion.

 

[The Heretic]

There are many claims with varying but somewhat similar time tables. I'm not sure how much impact most folks here will feel in their lifetimes, but a thing to remember that Earth's population is growing, and they won't all be jumping to EVs either

For some things, like ships, it will take a while to go to fully electric power. The larger the payload, the more power needed to move it, and that is where most of the fossil fuels will be expended.

Personal vehicles will be EVs, while container ships will still be using bunker fuel, although I believe that the makeup of bunker fuel will evolve towards being less polluting than it is now.

 

[The Heretic]

Where I used to work - Daimler Trucks HQ - they had a few dozen charging stations that were free in the parking lot. You had to get there early to find an empty space with charger though. Not sure how many amps they put out though, but the cars stayed hooked up all day.

The office across the river at Montgomery Park has a megawatt+ solar array plus a MW genset, but they only had something like three charging stations and they charged for them.

 

[fd15k]

SpaceX is now taking reservations for Starlink for parts of the PNW. Saying mid to late 2021 to be available. I have a res. In for the gear, they claim it will be about 100mbs up and down. Power can be out, but space internet will be working.

We will see once they get it out for use. Concerns on reliability and if the martians will take out the satellites pre-invasion.

Note that it's relatively power hungry, pulling about 90W 24x7, plus another 10W or so if you actually use the provided wifi router.

 

[arakboss]

If we have a CME/EMP (or a Cascadian earthquake for that matter), the pumps at the gas stations probably won't be working, and even if they were, or we used hand pumps, the tanks will run empty fairly quickly since it is unlikely that they would get refilled.

The advantage of having an EV is that it can be recharged a number of ways. Solar, wind, generator, other batteries - a number of ways to recharge them at home (or wherever you are). Once the fossil fuels run out (due to a SHTF event) they are gone. You can maybe make some veggie diesel, but that only helps if you have a diesel that can run on it. Ditto with propane.

If SHTF, you can find some solar panels, wire them up and charge your batteries.

That said, those events happening, people will not be driving around a whole lot anyway. Right now, a tank of gas (16 gallons) lasts me for a month or more, more if I were more careful to only use the car if I absolutely need to. If I only went into town once a month, it could maybe last me 8-10 months. With 50-60 gallons at home, that could last me years if I am lucky to not need to go into town more often than once a month. So the point is kind of moot.

I might consider a hybrid with gas or diesel engine but no way I am going full electric. I would be lucky to make it to my off grid home in a strictly EV, but I wouldn't have a reliable way to charge it once I got there. I can't wait to see how all the electric atvs are going to perform.

 

[fd15k]

I might consider a hybrid with gas or diesel engine but no way I am going full electric. I would be lucky to make it to my off grid home in a strictly EV, but I wouldn't have a reliable way to charge it once I got there. I can't wait to see how all the electric atvs are going to perform.

Hybrid is basically 2.5 times the complexity of either gas or purely electric vehicle. It's possibly the least logical choice for the preparedness folks, as complexity leads to reduced reliability and more involved maintenance.

 

[arakboss]

I have a serious problem with the idea we are going to substantially increase demand for electricity while at the same time we are reducing the options of where the electricity is coming from. No more hydro, nuclear, coal, natural gas, etc. We have many places where electricity demand already outstrips supply and that leads to brownouts, etc. We have large areas where electricity is shut off when the wind blows and now we want everybody to switch to electricity to power all our transportation, not smart imho.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

12v cummins diesel will run off its own used engine oil, transmission fluid, vegetable oil, used fryer oil cut with WD40, all sorts of stuff. its the honey badger of engines. it dont care. it just goes.

 

[arakboss]

12v cummins diesel will run off its own used engine oil, transmission fluid, vegetable oil, used fryer oil cut with WD40, all sorts of stuff. its the honey badger of engines. it dont care. it just goes.

The people who will weather these power outages the best are the people who use the most diversification in their energy sources. Same goes for the country. If you or the country relies to much on one source or another it will come back to bite us one day. As a country our diversification is pretty good at the moment but if the enviro-nuts and climate change alarmist get their way, that diversification is going to be severely diminished.

 

[burnsidePDX]

I just relocated from Oregon to a warmer southern border state days before all this happened, couldn't be happier to leave the PNW sad to say unfortunately, & my feet aren't cold anymore. Today was 70 degrees, sunny & getting warmer ever day.

 

[PDXbiker]

There'll be a quantum leap in tech that'll make these incremental musings quant and obsolete.

But you'll still always have this guy.....

 

[The Heretic]

Note that it's relatively power hungry, pulling about 90W 24x7, plus another 10W or so if you actually use the provided wifi router.

From my research it seems to be more like 150W.

Since that is the power draw of two incandescent light bulbs, and would only cost me about 50¢ per day, I am not too worried about that issue, except for the fact that it is about 20X what my current router and long distance wifi draw so it would run down my UPS about 20X faster should the power go out (i.e., my UPS would last about 30 minutes instead of ten hours).

If a person had a decent solar panel/battery bank setup, Starlink would still be a good candidate for off grid internet.

If SHTF though, you have to take into account that the satellites currently require relatively nearby ground stations to give you decent latency. Nearby as within their cone of "view" of the earth, which is about 2-300 miles in diameter if you look at the coverage circle on a map.

In future satellites, they are going to be launched with laser communication for inter-satellite links, so that if there isn't a ground station within view, they can send data thru the network of satellites to one that has a ground station within its coverage view. When you think about it, this will be necessary for the very remote areas of less developed regions (e.g., Africa, etc.) around the world. Most people don't think about these details, not realizing that satellites need ground stations.

 

[BigDog67]

How did you get cable service in ?

Cable goes overhead just like power and phone. The only place we find underground cable is in new developments.

 

[Provincial]

Frankly, that's nonsense. The beauty of electric vehicles is that in majority of cases they don't require "gas station equivalents" aka charging stations. Most rural folks have electricity (normally), with service being around 200A. If one charges at half that amperage (most have built-in chargers for up to 50A at this time, but that's not an inherent limitation), that's about 640 miles of range in 8 hours. I would like to see rural folks who travel more than 640 miles per day for "supplies, education and services."

I understand the topic is highly technical, and not everyone around here is technical. So folks should ask questions they have instead of spreading FUD.

Not being a FUD, just relating my experience from past developments. Urban elites and technocrats make decisions based on their experience and theory. In the real world, the "little people" and those in economic and social minorities suffer while the mainstream and elites prosper.

Don't try to gaslight me. I have researched the options for transportation for my family. To commute to the most practical job locations from here, current electrical vehicles are at the limit of their range. I am not that "rural." Any diversion from most direct route exceed the range of the vehicles. No side trip to shop for groceries.

Yes, technology advances. But will it advance in the area it is needed, and will it be within reach of the "common man?" If not, the elites will enjoy their mobility, and tell the masses "Let them eat cake."

 

[I594 Sucks]

I would point out that this is an example of free market failure. Power companies, being monopolies, have no incentive to upgrade the infrastructure (put power lines below ground), and aren't responsible for any inconvenience caused to the subscribers. Similarly communications companies are often in the same boat, though there is at least some competition happening in some areas. Generally firearms enthusiasts are against the government regulation, which is understandable, but unless they're prepared to go full off-grid, this is why government regulation in many areas is the way to go.

There is no good example of "free market failure" and power companies have an excellent incentive to upgrade their infrastructure...it's called "Profit".

Government regulation often does more harm than good, because most bureaucrats know very little about how these companies work. All that ever comes from additional regulation is a higher cost to the consumer in exchange for little to no benefit.

The individual citizen is ultimately responsible for his own comfort and survival. I wouldn't rely upon the government to ensure mine, but if I do, I deserve exactly what I get.

 

[I594 Sucks]

Cable goes overhead just like power and phone. The only place we find underground cable is in new developments.

Underground isn't for everyone.

I used to work on mountaintop communications sites, where overhead power lines frequently fail, due to weather conditions. When I asked the local utility about running the line under ground, I was told that it would be a bad idea. The reason was that below ground lines are far more difficult to locate and repair, in such terrain. A single lightning strike, for instance, could damage an underground line, requiring hours or days to locate and repair, versus a down power line on a pole.

 

[arakboss]

Underground isn't for everyone.

I used to work on mountaintop communications sites, where overhead power lines frequently fail, due to weather conditions. When I asked the local utility about running the line under ground, I was told that it would be a bad idea. The reason was that below ground lines are far more difficult to locate and repair, in such terrain. A single lightning strike, for instance, could damage an underground line, requiring hours or days to locate and repair, versus a down power line on a pole.

I wonder if the underground lines would be less likely to burn down a town like Paradise, CA.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The children. Think of the children.

 

[I594 Sucks]

The children. Think of the children.

Great idea! Put your kids on a power generating treadmill! Wish I'd thought of that <grin>.