Oregon SBR transfer issue

[Abigfatdynamo]

So I want to keep certain details sparse until I know what I'm dealing with. Last summer (2022) I sold an SBR CZ scorpion to a shop. They said the transfer of a NFA item was a bit more complex but they would have no issue getting it done. They cut me a check and I put it out of my mind.
About 6 months ago they reach out to me to let me know they are having difficulty selling it and want to return it's designation to a pistol but they need my signature to do so. I trust this shop so I went there and and signed the form(after reading it of course).
Today I get a call saying they technically acquired the SBR from me illegally and want it out of their shop. I guess they didn't do the paperwork correctly. They are giving it back to me free of charge. Part of me smells shenanigans but also free SBR. Does anyone have any experience selling an SBR to a shop?

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[Knobgoblin]

Contact a lawyer.
Much as I despise this , it's how our society works.

 

[peteNW503]

So I want to keep certain details sparse until I know what I'm dealing with. Last summer (2022) I sold an SBR CZ scorpion to a shop. They said the transfer of a NFA item was a bit more complex but they would have no issue getting it done. They cut me a check and I put it out of my mind.
About 6 months ago they reach out to me to let me know they are having difficulty selling it and want to return it's designation to a pistol but they need my signature to do so. I trust this shop so I went there and and signed the form(after reading it of course).
Today I get a call saying they technically acquired the SBR from me illegally and want it out of their shop. I guess they didn't do the paperwork correctly. They are giving it back to me free of charge. Part of me smells shenanigans but also free SBR. Does anyone have any experience selling an SBR to a shop?

Sounds like it is their problem. I applaud you for trying to be a decent guy and following up with them but sounds like they dropped the ball. I would be worried more about myself than the shop. Last thing anybody wants is an alphabet agent knocking on the door. Weird situation hopefully they resolve it.

 

[Abigfatdynamo]

Sounds like it is their problem. I applaud you for trying to be a decent guy and following up with them but sounds like they dropped the ball. I would be worried more about myself than the shop. Last thing anybody wants is an alphabet agent knocking on the door. Weird situation hopefully they resolve it.

To be clear IDGAF about the shop. My concern is taking an SBR that isn't registered to me anymore. I'm half tempted to tell them to just run it through a band saw 4 or 5 times

 

[Aero Denezol]

Sounds like your Scorpion is still an SBR and still registered to you. ATF wouldn't let them remove it from the registry (convert to pistol) because they didn't follow the proper steps to buy it and do not technically own it.

The best way to do this is to return it to a Pistol and take it off the NFA registry before selling. There are form letters online for doing this. The buyer can re-build it as an SBR on their own initiative. If the buyer is an FFL who paid the Special Occupation Tax building an SBR is a straightforward deal.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Not legal advice, but common sense would say you could go pick it up, iMMEDIATELY remove the stock so it is just a pistol again and be safe. If you want it as an SBR apply for a new stamp. From other threads here the SBR designation only matters when in that configuration.

 

[TTSX]

I wouldn't touch that gun with a 10ft pole in someone else's hands. If you screw up with NFA stuff in your possession, you're gonna have 3 hots and a cot for a long time along with a fine that would make the check they gave you look like pennies. Block their number and walk away. Maybe even get a lawyer...

 

[Nosferatu]

Call your local ATF office.

For being a despicable government alphabet agency, the local guys are always quite helpful in matters like this.

 

[Abigfatdynamo]

Call your local ATF office.

For being a despicable government alphabet agency, the local guys are always quite helpful in matters like this.

Just got off the phone with the local branch. They basically said that since the gun was left with them that constitutes possession and there would be no legal way for them to return it to me. So they're basically stuck with a gun that they should not possess and can't transfer. I called the shop and told them to destroy it.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's worrisome the shop didn't have a better handle on how to do the transfer correctly but went ahead with it anyway

 

[Abigfatdynamo]

It's worrisome the shop didn't have a better handle on how to do the transfer correctly but went ahead with it anyway

Yeah really doesn't inspire confidence. The guy at the ATF branch told me that it boils down to a gun that's registered in my name but no longer in my possession, with all of the legal ramifications that might arise should the gun go missing.

 

[peteNW503]

Just got off the phone with the local branch. They basically said that since the gun was left with them that constitutes possession and there would be no legal way for them to return it to me. So they're basically stuck with a gun that they should not possess and can't transfer. I called the shop and told them to destroy it.

Sucks for them man you followed the rules. If I sell a gun to a pawn shop it. I have relinquish possession whatever happens with that gun at that point is on them not me. The fact that they are basically telling you we can't sell it therefore it is somehow your problem. Somebody approved the sale when you sold it to the shop. Sounds like they need to man up and take the loss.

 

[User 1234]

The shop should have waited for an approved Form 4 from you to the shop before they took possession.

Or, they should have had you remove the stock before transferring possession.

As a practical matter I doubt they would find a buyer without proof it had been removed from the registry though.

 

[Abigfatdynamo]

The shop should have waited for an approved Form 4 from you to the shop before they took possession.

That's where the problem lies I guess. The minute I walked out the door it became unlawful possession. ATF guy said them trying to sweep it under the rug and return it on the DL would muddy the water even further and have big boy consequences should I try and take possession again.

 

[TTSX]

That's where the problem lies I guess. The minute I walked out the door it became unlawful possession. ATF guy said them trying to sweep it under the rug and return it on the DL would muddy the water even further and have big boy consequences should I try and take possession again.

Line I said, do not touch with a 10 ft pole held by someone else

 

[RedneckRampage]

That's where the problem lies I guess. The minute I walked out the door it became unlawful possession. ATF guy said them trying to sweep it under the rug and return it on the DL would muddy the water even further and have big boy consequences should I try and take possession again.

Just curious,

Hypothetically,

If the proper steps were not taken for you to transfer it to them, who knew (besides you and them) that they had it?

If only you and them knew, couldn't you have just taken it back, like they never had it?

How would the ATF have found out if you or them didn't tell, and they were not inspected and found to be in possession?

I get that the thought of going to prison is scary, and everyone wants to be above board, but without tattling on someone's self, what would have happened?

 

[User 1234]

Just curious,

Hypothetically,

If the proper steps were not taken for you to transfer it to them, who knew (besides you and them) that they had it?

If only you and them knew, couldn't you have just taken it back, like they never had it?

How would the ATF have found out if you or them didn't tell, and they were not inspected and found to be in possession?

I get that the thought of going to prison is scary, and everyone wants to be above board, but without tattling on someone's self, what would have happened?

Because the dealer's A and D book would still show the acquisition and distribution of it, even if the SBR had been illegally returned to the original registrant.

 

[Abigfatdynamo]

I get that the thought of going to prison is scary, and everyone wants to be above board, but without tattling on someone's self, what would have happened?

Probably nothing, then again the same thing could be said about slapping a stock onto a pistol. Not really something I'm willing to FAFO on.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

hmm this to me sounds like either avoid completely which sounds like you wisely did, or get an attorney to verify it's ok to take possession.

Seems to me it comes down to the specifics of the gun. Fe if it was manufactured as a pistol, sbr'd and stock or brace added, then stock could be removed and it's a pistol again, not an sbr.

If it was manufactured and sold originally as a sbr then im not sure if it could be transferred as a pistol. I wonder if "manufactured as a rifle, always a rifle" applies here?

Just my thoughts fwiw, I'm no expert on this in the slightest.

 

[RedneckRampage]

Because the dealer's A and D book would still show the acquisition and distribution of it, even if the SBR had been illegally returned to the original registrant.

That would make sense I guess, if they even put it in there. Just seems like if it came up and they explained it was a screw up, there would be no harm in reversing it and fixing the problem , as long as it wasn't taken off the registry.