Need a bit of help for Spouse transfer

[Alexx1401]

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless the people are blind"

Sadly a LOT of black robes have decided they can and do infringe on rights. Then it can take decades and box cars of money to fight it.

 

[solv3nt]

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless the people are blind"

I don't think he's saying he doesn't have the right. Most gun owners are about safety. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean that it should. For example, you can shoot at an animal that is in top of the hill, but should you?

 

[TTSX]

I don't think he's saying he doesn't have the right. Most gun owners are about safety. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean that it should. For example, you can shoot at an animal that is in top of the hill, but should you?

Of course I shouldn't. Doesn't mean I can't own the rifle, though. It really seems like I'm the only person on this forum who has no issue with this individual owning one. And that's just not what I expected...

 

[solv3nt]

Of course I shouldn't. Doesn't mean I can't own the rifle, though. It really seems like I'm the only person on this forum who has no issue with this individual owning one. And that's just not what I expected...

Nobody said that..... If it's a buddy of mine, sure I'll help him read it. Some random person, nope. I keep to myself in public.

 

[Tlock]

Of course I shouldn't. Doesn't mean I can't own the rifle, though. It really seems like I'm the only person on this forum who has no issue with this individual owning one. And that's just not what I expected...

I'm for exercising your 2nd amendment 100%. If I was blind or went blind your dam right I'm gonna still own firearms. In good conscience I wouldn't carry or hunt, might have some help target shooting to make sure I'm as safe as possible

 

[TTSX]

Nobody said that..... If it's a buddy of mine, sure I'll help him read it. Some random person, nope. I keep to myself in public.

Fair enough. I can't blame you for that

 

[oremike]

That was what I brought up when this first started. The legal definition of "blind" so that you are disabled is what my vision is with no correction. If they could not correct mine I would be able to say I was legally blind. HUGE difference between that and someone totally blind as in they can't even fill out the forms.

Playing the devils advocate here, So if you don't have your glasses on you can't ask for help filling out the form and in fact shouldn't own a gun?

 

[WillametteWill]

That is the definition of a straw purchase and will land you in jail. If you purchase a gun FOR another person (even if they can lawfully buy the gun themselves) you just violated the same law as Hunter Biden, lying on a 4473.

No your wrong

4473 Question #21 (the first one)
Are you the actual transferee/buyer of all of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring any of the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer any of the firearm(s) to you. (Emphasis Original)

Please explain how to construe my statement to be wrong.

Now, as I stated in my post, technically a "gift" is different, as explained in the instructions for the ATF form:

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.​

To me, this pretty clearly says I can buy a gun with the intent to "gift" it to someone (the ATF form provides examples). The problem is, especially for a chain of stores that really doesn't want to lose their FFL by messing this up, especially now knowing how FFLs have a target on them from the current admin, they have to be exceptionally careful.

Spouses come into the stores all the time and announce to the world, "I'm buying this gun for my _____ ." They just violated question #21 and they now will not sell to this person. Because what if this was an AFT agent? They can't take the risk. If the licker of ticks wishes to do so, good for them (they are actually good guys and have bought from them in the past and would in the future, just using them as an example...cool name and all), but a large store can't take this risk. Honestly, with all the 4473s that have been sworn under the penalty of perjury on this thread alone, I would think we should understand this.

Of course, no legal advice, but I do frequently stay in Holiday Inns

 

[Member 53328]

Not suspicious enough for Cabela's to deny a sale, apparently. And as stated, they have a specific procedure for exactly this kind of scenario.

I'm very surprised there are people on this forum who view blind people as ineligible to be armed, even though they won't explicitly say so.

Individuals who say a blind person shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm are the same people who argue that felons should still be allowed to own guns…… makes sense. Or not.

 

[solv3nt]

How many episodes of COPS have you seen that the police say "you have the right to remain silent" and the perp starts singing?

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't think he's saying he doesn't have the right. Most gun owners are about safety. Just because you can do something, doesn't necessarily mean that it should. For example, you can shoot at an animal that is in top of the hill, but should you?

What many also do not seem to be able to comprehend is no FFL is required by law to sell anyone a gun. The fact that the person can own it does not force the FFL to sell them one.

 

[Member 53328]

4473 Question #21 (the first one)
Are you the actual transferee/buyer of all of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)? Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring any of the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer any of the firearm(s) to you. (Emphasis Original)

Please explain how to construe my statement to be wrong.

Now, as I stated in my post, technically a "gift" is different, as explained in the instructions for the ATF form:

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.​

To me, this pretty clearly says I can buy a gun with the intent to "gift" it to someone (the ATF form provides examples). The problem is, especially for a chain of stores that really doesn't want to lose their FFL by messing this up, especially now knowing how FFLs have a target on them from the current admin, they have to be exceptionally careful.

Spouses come into the stores all the time and announce to the world, "I'm buying this gun for my _____ ." They just violated question #21 and they now will not sell to this person. Because what if this was an AFT agent? They can't take the risk. If the licker of ticks wishes to do so, good for them (they are actually good guys and have bought from them in the past and would in the future, just using them as an example...cool name and all), but a large store can't take this risk. Honestly, with all the 4473s that have been sworn under the penalty of perjury on this thread alone, I would think we should understand this.

Of course, no legal advice, but I do frequently stay in Holiday Inns

Intent is key. Most people miss that.

 

[Alexx1401]

Playing the devils advocate here, So if you don't have your glasses on you can't ask for help filling out the form and in fact shouldn't own a gun?

Without my glasses I have no problem reading and filling stuff out. Some of my glasses don't have the built in cheaters and when I have them on I have to take them off to read stuff close up. Again what many seem to not be able to comprehend is NO FFL is required by some magic law to sell a gun to anyone who walks in the door. If for any reason the FFL is not comfortable making the sale you can't call 911 and expect them to send a Cop for force the FFL to make the sale. Having the right to a gun does not say the FFL has no rights to not sell to you.

 

[Yarome]

If it's a buddy of mine, sure I'll help him read it.

Regardless of "legalities"... how it's likely to play in todays society....

"In todays news a 23 year old man visiting his father from out of state as a birthday surprise was shot and killed by his blind father while using his key to enter the home unannounced. Believing him to be an intruder, the father emptied his firearm toward the area he believed the door to be. Bullet holes where found in the exterior walls of 3 neighboring homes. The man's friend, Solv3nt... who recently assisted the blind man in obtaining the firearm... has been detained and is being questioned by authorities. The case was referred to gooberment authorities who have opened an investigation into the FFL that sold the firearm."

 

[ma96782]

BUT, But, but.......



Aloha, Mark

PS......it's NOT ACTUALLY a "strawman purchase" if she isn't a prohibited person and say that YOU were to buy and allow her to use the firearm.

 

[Alexx1401]

View attachment 1740559

BUT, But, but.......

View attachment 1740558

Aloha, Mark

PS......it's NOT ACTUALLY a "strawman purchase" if she isn't a prohibited person and say that YOU were to buy and allow her to use the firearm.

As mentioned when he gave the whole story most shops would not have a problem with what he was doing. That place did as the counter jockey was afraid. Just as the other poster mentioned that when he handed his credit card to one at the same place for his Wife to make a buy they refused and even called the Police to remove him when he objected. Again no FFL is required to make the sale if they don't want to for any reason.

 

[ma96782]

As mentioned when he gave the whole story most shops would not have a problem with what he was doing. That place did as the counter jockey was afraid. Just as the other poster mentioned that when he handed his credit card to one at the same place for his Wife to make a buy they refused and even called the Police to remove him when he objected. Again no FFL is required to make the sale if they don't want to for any reason.

Yeah.....for me. It's not like I'll die on that cross. Thankfully there are still plenty of other places/FFLs.

And.....
Thankfully, there are many a brave soul that will stand up for COMMON SENSE and FREEDOM.

BUT, But, but.......
If, you have a bakery.........
Well, YOU better make me a cake.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Tlock]

Yeah.....for me. It's not like I'll die on that cross. Thankfully there are still plenty of other places/FFLs.

And.....
Thankfully, there are many a brave soul that will stand up for COMMON SENSE and FREEDOM.

BUT, But, but.......
If, you have a bakery.........
Well, YOU better make me a cake.

Aloha, Mark

I spend my money in places I like and have similar beliefs as me....no target, no Starbucks, no budlight.....if a ffl doesn't wanna sell me a gun I will simply spend my money somewhere else

 

[PiratePast40]

I recall seeing a pair of lawyers with a video on what to tell the police when arrested or questioned. Once a week that put on a special video asking what day it was. The answer was always "It's Shut The F*** Up Friday".

 

[Member 53328]

I recall seeing a pair of lawyers with a video on what to tell the police when arrested or questioned. Once a week that put on a special video asking what day it was. The answer was always "It's Shut The F*** Up Friday".

It's called the 5th Amendment.