Idaho Pistol Brace Ban Tax Stamp Issues

[Darrenmolder]

Let me start by saying I am a longtime registered member of the Firearms Protection Coalition (FPC) and have removed all of my pistol braces and taken them away from my residence premises however something is seriously wrong with how my Form 1's are being handled by the ATF & can't help but wonder why. I am permanently disabled for multiple reasons on all four quadrants including my spine with multiple rotator cuff surgeries & total reverse shoulder replacement on my right (dominant) side. After the pistol brace ban it was a no brainer given my disabilities to file form 1's for my existing pistol braces plus an unfinished build which I have not yet installed yet plan to if I can get approval to complete the build. Shortly after the new ban I obtained three sets of fingerprint cards and took my own pictures passport style to save on money and submitted three applications via E-File with my selfies along with pictures of the receivers and serial numbers. Aditionaly three sets of fingerprint cards in via USPS mail signature required all of this was completed within the application period before the deadline. A few months later I was notified they rejected 2 of my three applications because I had eyeglasses on my photo & did not fill in the firearm description EXACTLY as it read on the receiver and the third application was still pending and not yet reviewed (I sent all three in the same large envelope at the same time). They notified me I would need to refile on paper the two that were rejected which I did along with new passport photos, photos of the serial numbers & new fingerprint cards which I did within the next week and again I submitted the via USPS with signature required. This was completed last May (05/2023) and as of today nothing has been approved including the third form I submitted with the other two all together in April (04/2023) which they have never responded to. I check on all three online at the ATF website and all three state they are pending. It is my belief they never intended on giving me a tax stamp and are just sitting on my applications and of course keeping a file of my three applications which were never approved. BTW.. the third application that was never reviewed the first time was a Ruger .22 Charger....LOL- these are not machine guns folks! Thanks for reading and please let me know how your transaction went.

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[PiratePast40]

On the ATF website where you find your application status, there should be a phone number. Get your application numbers together, and call them to ask what's going on. The person answering the phone probably doesn't have any more information than what's online, but ask them to pursue the issue for you. T

hey won't have an answer for you that day but I've had approvals within a day or two of calling.

 

[Darrenmolder]

On the ATF website where you find your application status, there should be a phone number. Get your application numbers together, and call them to ask what's going on. The person answering the phone probably doesn't have any more information than what's online, but ask them to pursue the issue for you. T

hey won't have an answer for you that day but I've had approvals within a day or two of calling.

Yes sir, I am well aware of that & check it regularly as well as spending hours on hold to speak with a representative. It's always the same answer…. "We have received your new applications & they are pending". I have been hearing that for the last six months. Thanks for your input!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Let me start by saying I am a longtime registered member of the Firearms Protection Coalition (FPC) and have removed all of my pistol braces and taken them away from my residence premises however something is seriously wrong with how my Form 1's are being handled by the ATF & can't help but wonder why. I am permanently disabled for multiple reasons on all four quadrants including my spine with multiple rotator cuff surgeries & total reverse shoulder replacement on my right (dominant) side. After the pistol brace ban it was a no brainer given my disabilities to file form 1's for my existing pistol braces plus an unfinished build which I have not yet installed yet plan to if I can get approval to complete the build. Shortly after the new ban I obtained three sets of fingerprint cards and took my own pictures passport style to save on money and submitted three applications via E-File with my selfies along with pictures of the receivers and serial numbers. Aditionaly three sets of fingerprint cards in via USPS mail signature required all of this was completed within the application period before the deadline. A few months later I was notified they rejected 2 of my three applications because I had eyeglasses on my photo & did not fill in the firearm description EXACTLY as it read on the receiver and the third application was still pending and not yet reviewed (I sent all three in the same large envelope at the same time). They notified me I would need to refile on paper the two that were rejected which I did along with new passport photos, photos of the serial numbers & new fingerprint cards which I did within the next week and again I submitted the via USPS with signature required. This was completed last May (05/2023) and as of today nothing has been approved including the third form I submitted with the other two all together in April (04/2023) which they have never responded to. I check on all three online at the ATF website and all three state they are pending. It is my belief they never intended on giving me a tax stamp and are just sitting on my applications and of course keeping a file of my three applications which were never approved. BTW.. the third application that was never reviewed the first time was a Ruger .22 Charger....LOL- these are not machine guns folks! Thanks for reading and please let me know how your transaction went.

Since their rule has been thrown out in court in its entirety (braces are legal again now for the time being) I would guess that they legally cannot process any more applications under the brace rule. Or perhaps they don't know if they can and want to hold it until some future or final court ruling. I'd put the braces back on and contact atf re the pending applications.

 

[Nosferatu]

Braces are no longer contraband. Enjoy your freedom.

 

[terdog]

Hey there neighbor.
I'm up in Sandpoint.
Where do you shoot?

 

[lucusloc]

I was talking with my NFA dealer about this, and they say the ATF is in full blown disarray over the court rulings. No idea if they are going to continue processing "free" SBR stamps, or what the status is on any that are outstanding. It seems like half the ATF wants to register as much stuff as possible just to get it on the books and the other half wants to take their ball and go home. Meanwhile we can all put braces back on and carry on with our lives.

The only thing that sucks about this is the few people who did want to get a free SBR stamp out of the deal (register the brace gun as an SBR, then swap out brace for stock. was not a bad plan for those into that kind of thing). They are stuck in limbo as the ATF figures out what it wnats to do. At least you can put the braces back on while you wait. You might as well do that and just let the stamp applications sit until who knows when and the ATF give you a final answer on them.

 

[Darrenmolder]

On the ATF website where you find your application status, there should be a phone number. Get your application numbers together, and call them to ask what's going on. The person answering the phone probably doesn't have any more information than what's online, but ask them to pursue the issue for you. T

hey won't have an answer for you that day but I've had approvals within a day or two of calling.

Thanks for your reply Pirate- I have called several times & once even got a second number to try from the clerk that answered the phone. I called and left several messages none of which were returned.

 

[Darrenmolder]

Hey there neighbor.
I'm up in Sandpoint.
Where do you shoot?

Hello Dog- I don't move very fast so the local ranges are not an option & I don't like polluting our hunting grounds with gunfire so I have a small range here at the property behind my house. Nice to meet you!

 

[Darrenmolder]

I was talking with my NFA dealer about this, and they say the ATF is in full blown disarray over the court rulings. No idea if they are going to continue processing "free" SBR stamps, or what the status is on any that are outstanding. It seems like half the ATF wants to register as much stuff as possible just to get it on the books and the other half wants to take their ball and go home. Meanwhile we can all put braces back on and carry on with our lives.

The only thing that sucks about this is the few people who did want to get a free SBR stamp out of the deal (register the brace gun as an SBR, then swap out brace for stock. was not a bad plan for those into that kind of thing). They are stuck in limbo as the ATF figures out what it wnats to do. At least you can put the braces back on while you wait. You might as well do that and just let the stamp applications sit until who knows when and the ATF give you a final answer on them.

Thanks for the reply: I seriously don't want an SBR stamp unless I need one to be legal. My statement is that I e-filed three at one time within a few weeks after the announcement was made, two were rejected & the third has not been yet been reviewed.

The other mark they missed is that I'm legally permanently disabled for whom these braces were originally designed for & still couldn't get approved. I don't think they wanted to issue these tax stamps to anyone.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Braces are currently legal without a stamp. In addition, you were covered by your application to legally use braces while the final rule application is in process. In addition, you are covered to use braces without a stamp because you are a FPC member and those members were covered under their lawsuit.

As I recall over 130,000 final rule approvals were completed. Many here have them.

Federal program applications have to be done perfectly, if they are not done perfectly they fall under a longer term "fix it" process or get thrown out. That's true whether applying for farm subsidies, a passport, whatever. That's why there was tons of info on here about how to do the application perfectly and guys like @wired and others answered questions about how to fill out the paperwork in the exact right way.

 

[terdog]

Hello Dog- I don't move very fast so the local ranges are not an option & I don't like polluting our hunting grounds with gunfire so I have a small range here at the property behind my house. Nice to meet you!

I too enjoy PCC's. 9mm, 10mm, 5.56 and 308.

 

[lucusloc]

I too enjoy PCC's. 9mm, 10mm, 5.56 and 308.

I do not think we are using the same definition of "pistol caliber" here. . .

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I do not think we are using the same definition of "pistol caliber" here. . .

9D465544-6A05-4DB2-A312-E0962843700F.gif

• ilikegunspdx
• Dec 24, 2023

Seriously though, small .308, 300BO, and 5.56 are awesome! I guess there is no official name for them, I call them PCCs too.

308 short barrel, feel the power!

FullSizeRender.MOV

• ilikegunspdx
• Nov 23, 2023

 

[terdog]

I do not think we are using the same definition of "pistol caliber" here. . .

Isn't 9mm a pistol cartridge? Isn't 10mm?

5.56 & 308?
As long as they are less than 26" overall length and a barrel shorter than 16" they are considered a pistol.

So my 8" 5.56 and 12.5" 308 are pistols, aren't they?

 

[lucusloc]

9D465544-6A05-4DB2-A312-E0962843700F.gif

• ilikegunspdx
• Dec 24, 2023

Seriously though, small .308, 300BO, and 5.56 are awesome! I guess there is no official name for them, I call them PCCs too.

308 short barrel

FullSizeRender.MOV

• ilikegunspdx
• Nov 23, 2023

"RCP" Rifle Caliber Pistol. Or, depending on configuration SBR (or with a brace "Not SBR definitely still a pistol [but still kinda an SBR]"). Alternatively they could just be a carbine, but that gets into fiddly subjective stuff on how short is short if you still have a non-NFA barrel length.

PCC can mean anything from the short stuff (with or without stamps) to full sized rifles that shot standard pistol stuff. The grey zone is when you get into magnum revolver straight walled stuff. Those are typically considered carbines, but I see arguments all the time on if they count as "pistol caliber" or not, especially out of a 16 inch barrel. Straight walled magnums really like to defy categorization (or, alternatively, just be their own distinct category)

 

[Darrenmolder]

Braces are currently legal without a stamp. In addition, you were covered by your application to legally use braces while the final rule application is in process. In addition, you are covered to use braces without a stamp because you are a FPC member and those members were covered under their lawsuit.

As I recall over 130,000 final rule approvals were completed. Many here have them.

Federal program applications have to be done perfectly, if they are not done perfectly they fall under a longer term "fix it" process or get thrown out. That's true whether applying for farm subsidies, a passport, whatever. That's why there was tons of info on here about how to do the application perfectly and guys like @wired and others answered questions about how to fill out the paperwork in the exact right way.

Yeah, they notified me that my forms had the mistakes on them & to re-apply on paper form with the mistakes corrected & resubmittted them with new fingerprint cards & actual passport photos again within the specified period in May of last year. Still no tax stamps, By now who knows with the court filings. I truly don't want a SBR stamp because with that filing come all the regulations that go with them. Of course the main goal is just to be in compliance with the law so I am good for now. I appreciate everyones input very much and thanks to all.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Yeah, they notified me that my forms had the mistakes on them & to re-apply on paper form with the mistakes corrected & resubmittted them with new fingerprint cards & actual passport photos again within the specified period in May of last year. Still no tax stamps, By now who knows with the court filings. I truly don't want a SBR stamp because with that filing come all the regulations that go with them. Of course the main goal is just to be in compliance with the law so I am good for now. I appreciate everyones input very much and thanks to all.

I think you are in a good position fwiw. You're kinda triple covered to use braces legally and if that stuff goes away you may have the sbr as a fall back if it ever goes through.

One neat thing about SBR is it's only an SBR as long as it's configured as an SBR (Fe attaching a stock or a vertical forward grip). Once those sbr features are removed (or if you put 16" barrel on it) it's no longer an sbr. Notifying atf of the change from SBR to pistol is not required (if it's long term change then they recommend you let them know so it's classification on the file is correct but it's not required).

 

[huntpotter]

Paper forms take a year or longer. Doesn't seem too far out of the norm, that you haven't been approved yet.

With paper forms, you can edit and correct any errors.

With e-file, if there is a minor, mis-spelling, they just disapprove it, and you start over.

So, just hang in there. They will get to it eventually. Just remember, this is the IRS you are dealing with. They work on their own timeframe, without fear of poor customer service reviews, or fear of anyone getting fired for poor performance.

 

[unionguy]

Yeah, they notified me that my forms had the mistakes on them & to re-apply on paper form with the mistakes corrected & resubmittted them with new fingerprint cards & actual passport photos again within the specified period in May of last year. Still no tax stamps, By now who knows with the court filings. I truly don't want a SBR stamp because with that filing come all the regulations that go with them. Of course the main goal is just to be in compliance with the law so I am good for now. I appreciate everyones input very much and thanks to all.

If you don't want the SBR stamps, you can withdraw your application through the online portal. I did that for a couple that I had filed for under the "free sbr stamp" and then changed my mind on. It was really easy. With braces legal again, that might be a good option of you not to have to worry about it anymore. Hope that's helpful.