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Safe or insane?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by borrowedsig, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. borrowedsig

    borrowedsig Lincoln, Nebraska Active Member

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    Funny story, well not so funny. I got into it the other day with a friend of mine because he is new to guns and honestly quite scared of them. He got a brand new glock 22 .40 and has started carrying it. I brought up to him the lack of a round in the chamber and he says he doesnt feel comfortable carrying like that. I talk ed to him at length about different scenario's and the most disconcerting thing about the answers wasnt that he didnt carry chambered but that he has issues with carrying and worse than that shooting. I gave him a scenario where a guy is robbing a convenience store and he said he would not draw or shoot unless the other guy started shooting.... you can see where this line of thought carrys him into the rest of my scenario's. Basically my feeling is if you are not comfortable carrying and 110 % certain you can take a life or protect someone else regardless of who they are, you shouldnt be carrying a gun loaded or no. Your going to hesitate and get someone or yourself killed. My wife and best friend where in on this conversation and she agrees with me 100%. She just started carrying after she was comfortable with guns and shooting. However my friend thinks its ok to just carry to get used to it even if you are not comfortable with using it. He also thinks that if he draws someone will be able to take it from him and if he just avoids bad areas he will be just fine. Which obviously to anyone who has lived for more than 5 years can tell you that nowhere is safe. He seems to be under this theory that if i hassle him about it and tell him he is wrong that im not respecting him, which is not the case. I just dont want him to have that thing on him and get himself or me or any of our mutual friends killed because he is afraid.


    My question to all of you is how do you weigh in on this? Thanks for letting me vent and for reading all that lol.

    Matt
     
  2. NWLIEN

    NWLIEN ORCHARDS/VANCOUVER, WA Member

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    Your buddie's a maroon.....

    Not much you can do..

    Sometimes darwin has to cover the bets...
    --carlos, harsh but honest.......
     
  3. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

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    You have to consider the fact that he went from Non-carry to Carry status. This is a big leap for a lot of people, especially when they are starting out being afraid of guns. When I was first considering carrying a firearm I had similar feelings about about keeping a round chambered. I continued to read and research and, on my own, came to the conclusion that there are plenty of plausible scenarios where I would not have time to chamber a round. I also did enough research to know that a Glock is one of the safest pistols to carry in this manner.

    Support your friend's decision to carry. Hopefully his tactics will improve before something bad happens. And if he's blessed, he'll never have to face a life-threatening situation at all.
     
  4. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    I'd say more and better tactical training before he continues to carry. Also, if he's going to carry without that training, mebbe he should consider a DA revolver with a hammer block or safety bar.

    What the hay do I know, though. I don't carry.

    Yet.
     
  5. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    My thought is that you are in a unique position to help this guy. Right now, after being "blessed" with the ability to carry, he isn't comfortable with the gun or the idea of carrying. If you can get this guy to the range, maybe run scenarios at the range where he would need to use his gun, he may see the need to carry chambered. Also, the more range time he gets, the more comfortable he will be with the gun itself.
     
  6. fingolfen

    fingolfen Oregon Member

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    You need to be comfortable with any firearm you carry - period.
     
  7. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    We've all heard the old saying..."You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."

    I've learned that humans are far worse.....you can't even lead them to the water.

    My point being, you can't help anyone unless they are wanting to be helped. You may be causing more damage to your friend by, in a sense trying to lead him to the water, when he has no intention of going. You can't force a person to do anything, some will have to learn on their own without help., or in this case your bantering at him.

    I don't think you'll have to worry about him getting himself or others killed, as you mentioned he most likely wouldn't draw until it was too late anyway.

    I would leave him alone, keep your opinions to yourself until asked. But if he presents a clear danger to himself and others, which from what you wrote above, he doesn't, but if he does, then I would chime in and talk to him.
     
  8. snew

    snew Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Hi Matt,

    I bolded a portion of your statement that's a very personal choice. Any bullet you release in a situation has lawyers and your morgage attached to it. A person has to make a decision why he's carrying and who he's carrying for before he carrys.

    Using me as an example, I don't carry to protect everyone. I can imagine more than a few instances where doing so could put me and mine in more jeopardy. So, in my case, carrying is for personal protection. I'm not a police officer, vigilante, or cowboy. I'm a responsible citizen, husband, father.

    Take it for what it's worth.
     
  9. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    If someone is robbing a 7-11 and i'm there if they are just robbing the store ( I have a gun in my pocket give me the cash, or a knife)and not harming anyone or robbing the customers I'll watch it go down.The store chain prohibits their people from being armed why should i help them out? I may have a different attitude if someone is harming or is a serious threar to harm the clerk or customers. My gun is loaded cocked and locked, anyone who carries an unloaded weapon should limit themself to a rock.
     
  10. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    I feel I am very in the middle on this issue so here is my insight.

    I have my CHL class tomorow night at 6:30, I then meet with the CHL people at the sheriffs office on the 17th to get my license. I am comfortable with guns yet compared to most of you pretty new to them. I only started getting into firearms about 2 years ago at best and have only had a pistol for a year and a half. I am getting my conceal carry because I can, because its a right I don't want to loose. However I am not comfortable carrying all the time so I won't. I will carry only at times when I feel safe and confident in using a weapon if it were to be needed.

    In other words I won't carry it going to the store because I don't feel I could safely use it in the situation. I will carry it in the woods, when I ride my motorcycle and various other situations where I feel I would not harm others or myself. As I grow more proficient and confident I will carry as I feel neccessary but if somebody can't proficiently use their weapon they should not have it on me. So is he safe or unsafe, im not sure. I think it depends on the situation. If he is in the forest I would say he is safe. In a mall VERY unsafe.
     
  11. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    We could all argue our personal beliefs and, in our minds, we would all be right. Everyone has to make their own decisions as to when and how to carry. If the guy doesn't want to carry loaded, well, that's something he will have to live with. I think that if you get him out (or if he starts going more) he may become more comfortable to carrying more and carry loaded (the gun, not the person:)).
     
  12. Dutchy556

    Dutchy556 Bend, OR Member

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    IMO, if you have any level of discomfort when it comes to carrying a loaded firearm (no matter what condition), don't.

    The loaded/empty chamber debate comes in here, and I'm inclined to lean towards loaded as many others have been saying.

    It sounds to me like your friend needs to get a serious amount of trigger time in before actually carrying that weapon in public. Once the practice has been put in, maybe then he'll be comfortable relying on the weapon's safeties, etc.

    ETA: Either way I don't think it's a great thing to have someone walking around with a gun on them that they are scared of, even in condition 3/Israeli Style/hammer down(or otherwise not-cocked) on an empty chamber.

    Practice, Practice, Practice
     
  13. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Dutchy556 covered every aspect completely. Nobody that's afraid of a weapon should carry that weapon. Period. To do otherwise is pointless and foolish and even worse than carrying nothing.

    This person should carry something he's ready to use and to use with gusto, such as a Taser or pepper spray. Otherwise he IS likely to present that weapon and not use it in time and it WILL be used against him.

    I don't know what he thinks he's accomplishing but the whole idea is out to lunch. Remember the W.C. Fields' advice, "Never smarten up a chump." They will not thank you for the effort. ;)


     
  14. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

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    Something to consider: Just because you're carrying doesn't mean you *have* to use it. :D
     
  15. RangerEric

    RangerEric Southern Oregon, United States Active Member

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    Hello all,
    While those of us that are more familiar with daily carry have certainly come to realize that the correct procedure is to carry with one in the chamber, ready to go, I'm not ashamed to say that I too had my discomfort with the idea of have a shell in the chamber when I first started carrying - and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The advice that was given to me, which I'm sure many of us have heard but I'll share in the hopes it is relayed to the OP's friend, is carry the gun condition 3, with an empty chamber (but without "decocking" by pulling the trigger) around the house, for as long as he needs to see that so long as carried properly with the correct, trigger-covering holster, a trigger will no go "Bang!" (or "Click" as the case might be) without being pulled. It's something I'm sure a good portion of us had to work through at some point, and he should definately be encouraged for the steps that he's taken in the right direction, and certainly not berated for not being at the comfort and experience levels of some of the rest of us. OMO, but that's what I needed someone to say to me when I was in his shoes..! :) Thanks guys.
     
  16. probasco

    probasco abeaversboro Member

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    and then there is the reason we all carry, because we have the freedom to make that decision. sometimes we overlook the simpliciity of individual choice.
    whatever he is comfy with, plum tickles me to death.
     
  17. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Nicely put. I would agree it's not the most tactically sound way of doing things, but if it makes him happy.....is it really hurting anything or anyone?
     
  18. pdxjohann

    pdxjohann Portland near Tigard Member

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    Hi Matt,
    Some experienced advice has been dispensed here to your question. I have a sense that you are worried about pressuring your friend. Your buddy surely is knows his own qualifications or confidence level too. Perhaps asking how it is for him and then being his buddy at the range will fill out his confidence. Remember how it is for children at the first.
     
  19. borrowedsig

    borrowedsig Lincoln, Nebraska Active Member

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    I appreciate all the input. It has helped me see his side as well. I still cant condone someone carrying when they are not comfortable. Too much can go wrong with it. Especially when its not just him he is endangering, if myself or my wife is along or if i had kids and they where around. I just see so many bad things happening. Anyway thanks to everyone for all you advice and input. Individual choice? I dont see it as that, when you carry you have to take into consideration everything and everyone around you. Gun owners have a much bigger responsibility than the average joe. They have to be aware of their surroundings and the people around them at all times because of what they carry. If they lose it or it gets taken from them its a danger to everyone including them. If they pull it at the wrong time or in the wrong place it could make a non violent situation escalate dramatically. There are alot of factors and i know you all know them already. I just know right and wrong and i cant just be ok with things that are wrong or sort of ok.


    Matt
     
  20. A2theK

    A2theK Olympia Member

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    It depends what kind of gun you are carrying If you carry a loaded J-22 or a Glock with a modded trigger to 2.5 - 3 lbs and carry it loaded you are a moron and you may blow your junk off.

    Hmm what was the guy carrying in the nightclub recently who shot himself after tucking his gun in his waistband??

    That's why I carry a simple 92fs w/crimson trace because I am left handed and I like having a draw/click safety off/fire scenario. I practice often and am very quick. It's 2 to the chest 1 to the head. (9mm)

    Cut the guy some slack...at least he's carrying and thinking about safety first. Tell him to get a safer gun than a Glock with something more than a pull the trigger "safety"

    You guys can flame me if you want for talking crap about Glocks, but I don't need to be "ready to kill" 24/7 where I live. I'm lucky If I am carrying a gun without a "real" safety, I practice load/dive/shoot or rely on DZR and/or Krav