Renewed threat to ammo security.

[Alexx1401]

And I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion!

Its really pretty simple. Its what he wants to believe is true so facts will never get through. Sadly its a pretty common thing. Some of the people I work with are like this. I had one of them the other day complaining to me about the new house speaker. Saying he was pissed the guy was flying private to some function. I started laughing and said have you never taken a Civics class in your life? You don't know that the 3d in line for the POTUS can't just jump on a commercial flight even if he wanted to? The guy got all butt hurt because several others started laughing. A LOT of people are like this though.

 

[The Heretic]

When I first started to roll my own we had a massive primmer shortage soon after. LONG before Al invented the net so can't remember what set it off or why.

Could it have been the rumor that the primers were going to be made with an expiration of 10 years?

It is crazy some of the rumors that make it out there.

 

[The Heretic]

I've been discovering that what they used to care about has gone by the wayside. And what they care about now is puzzling. I'm still trying to figure out how the Republicans became the pro-Russia party, and the Dems became the anti-Russia party.

1) I am sure some of them like the way Russia is run and for some strange reason (not so strange anymore) didn't see them as the threat that they saw in the Soviet Union.

2) $$$ - business is business

3) China more or less replaced Russia as the threat - and rightfully so

4) Gotta be the perceived opposite of the Democrats

 

[The Heretic]

Made me think of something my Dad told me LONG ago. He said everyone should have what he called a "FU&K YOU account". He meant cash on hand. He said way you could say F you to your boss, your landlord, whatever because you could pick up and go. Back then it was having 1K in cash. Shows how long ago this was. Point being myself, and now Wife, have always done this. Not just with disposable cash but with all the things we "want in life". If both of us were of a mind to tell our bosses to pound sand we could easily do so and walk away. Nice to be able to do so but not many seem to agree.

Not having debt is better than having a little spare cash - having both no debt and enough cash to live on with no job is nirvana.

 

[The Heretic]

The ant and grasshopper seems to forever play out on a loop. When I first started to roll my own we had a massive primmer shortage soon after. LONG before Al invented the net so can't remember what set it off or why. All I know is I figured I did not like having to run all over hell and gone. So when local store was stocked again I started buying 3 times as many as I was using for a good while. After I had an impressive pile I felt fine. Have been doing this ever since through, lost track of the panic shortages. Never thought of myself as real smart but, sure as hell seem to be a long way ahead of a lot of other shooters as I do not allow this stuff to get me.

Reloading supplies is something I need to stock up on.

Not so much depth as breadth. I have plenty of ammo, but I want to be able to load some ammo that I can't buy - light loads, special bullets, etc. - and that category is getting easier and easier to buy with ammo manufacturers supplying more and more "special" ammo.

 

[Alexx1401]

Reloading supplies is something I need to stock up on.

Not so much depth as breadth. I have plenty of ammo, but I want to be able to load some ammo that I can't buy - light loads, special bullets, etc. - and that category is getting easier and easier to buy with ammo manufacturers supplying more and more "special" ammo.

It was that, that pushed me to finally try rolling. Before the days of nice sub compact auto's in large caliber I tried out a Wheel gun in .44 Sp. 5 shot, alloy. Loved it but problem was back then us mortals could not order ammo and only .44sp ammo I could find was the heavy RN lead. After I played a bit and found how easy it was I stopped taking my spent brass to a shop to be reloaded and started doing my own.

 

[The Heretic]

It was that, that pushed me to finally try rolling. Before the days of nice sub compact auto's in large caliber I tried out a Wheel gun in .44 Sp. 5 shot, alloy. Loved it but problem was back then us mortals could not order ammo and only .44sp ammo I could find was the heavy RN lead. After I played a bit and found how easy it was I stopped taking my spent brass to a shop to be reloaded and started doing my own.

I have some primers (five thousand) but I should probably get some different ones so I have a better variety to select from

I have six containers of Trail Boss and a few other powders, but I absolutely need to get some varied powders too.

I am keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a Forster CoAx press. I have a cheap Lee (or two - I think my dad's was a Lee also) - I traded my RCBS Rock Chucker to a friend for some machine work/etc. he did for me.

 

[Alexx1401]

I have some primers (five thousand) but I should probably get some different ones so I have a better variety to select from

I have six containers of Trail Boss and a few other powders, but I absolutely need to get some varied powders too.

I am keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a Forster CoAx press. I have a cheap Lee (or two - I think my dad's was a Lee also) - I traded my RCBS Rock Chucker to a friend for some machine work/etc. he did for me.

Ebay tends to be a great place for watching for deals on rolling stuff. All of my "upgraded" stuff has come from them. Each time I would buy better stuff there I would also sell my old cheaper stuff there. Worked out great.

 

[gmerkt]

Just my opinion from reloading for the last 50 years but it looks like fewer and fewer companies make powder in the USA. Hodgdon bought out all but Alliance and eliminated a number of powders that will never return.

If you compare the burn rates it looks like they have thinned out a number of powders that are close.

IMR powders have been thinned out and some of my favorites gone for good.

You're not wrong. I don't think there were ever very many companies making powder in the US. But those that existed until the last 20 years have been consolidated under Hodgdon. Except for Alliant, and most of their product comes from Europe, not made in USA. With war in Ukraine, probably a lot of European made powder is going there.

It looks to all extents and purposes as if Hodgdon is trying to kill IMR as a product line. I think they announced that the (fairly new) line of Enduron line of powders was being discontinued. They've killed all the IMR pistol / shotgun powders. There are some close duplications of IMR stick powders in the Accurate powders line. None of the stick powders are made in the US anymore, the IMR and Accurate stick powders are made in Canada. The Hodgdon stick powders are made in Australia.

IMR powder has just about vanished from availability. It's not on any store shelves around here, currently. Online, about the only IMR you can find is 4227. The only stick powders I see for sale are Accurate 4064, 4350, and 2495. LT30 and LT32 are usually available. 5744 has gotten scarce.

I've used Accurate 2495 before subbing for IMR 4895 and it worked well. When I fired a lot of .30-06 in M1 Rifles, I used mostly IMR 4064. But I never got around to trying Accurate 4064, which might be better since it is advertised as a short cut version. I probably will look into Accurate LT32 for .223 Rem. since H322 and IMR 4198 have become so elusive and expensive.

BEWARE: There are a number of bogus and fraudulent online sites offering IMR powder for sale. Stay away from places like USA Hunter and IMR Powder Store .com. They and others are crooks. Red Flags:

1. Show availability of everything in the IMR powder line.

2. Show prices 25-30% lower than any legitimate seller.

3. Take only PayPal, Venmo, etc. One only takes Crypto currencies. If they won't take a mainstream credit card, move on.

 

[Local Loader]

IMR powder has just about vanished from availability. It's not on any store shelves around here, currently. Online, about the only IMR you can find is 4227. The only stick powders I see for sale are Accurate 4064, 4350, and 2495. LT30 and LT32 are usually available. 5744 has gotten scarce.

I've used Accurate 2495 before subbing for IMR 4895 and it worked well. When I fired a lot of .30-06 in M1 Rifles, I used mostly IMR 4064. But I never got around to trying Accurate 4064, which might be better since it is advertised as a short cut version. I probably will look into Accurate LT32 for .223 Rem. since H322 and IMR 4198 have become so elusive and expensive.

Your results seem to very quite a bit from mine. I've been able to find several different IMR powders at local shops, such as 4350, 4895, 4064, 4198, 3031 4227 and several others just in the last few months. We even have a shop that has h322 but I prefer h335.

 

[gmerkt]

Your results seem to very quite a bit from mine. I've been able to find several different IMR powders at local shops, such as 4350, 4895, 4064, 4198, 3031 4227 and several others just in the last few months. We even have a shop that has h322

The operative word is currently. It's been my experience that availability of IMR powders has fallen off significantly in the "past few months" At Cabelas, Sportsmans Warehouse, Skagit Arms and North Sound Armory, at least in this area. The online sites shouldn't vary from one computer to the next, and just this evening I checked Midway, Powder Valley and a few others. I hope the situation improves.

About a month ago, I did find a bottle of IMR 4895 for sale at a small gun shop in Renton, WA, but it was priced at $65 for one pound. That's the reason it was still available.

If Cabelas is going to have a bit of IMR, it usually is 3031.

I prefer h335.

Yeah, I like H335 myself. But now I'm down to my last half pound or so and I have a lot more bullets and primers than I have powder. For the moment. I've already got a lot of AR15 ammo; I like H322 for my non-AR .223's. I also use 322 and either of the 4198's for .45-70.

The various ball powders seem to be way more available. I've read that stick powders take a lot more time to make, which may be one component to the explanation of shortage / availability.

 

[Longwalkhome]

You're not wrong. I don't think there were ever very many companies making powder in the US. But those that existed until the last 20 years have been consolidated under Hodgdon. Except for Alliant, and most of their product comes from Europe, not made in USA. With war in Ukraine, probably a lot of European made powder is going there.

It looks to all extents and purposes as if Hodgdon is trying to kill IMR as a product line. I think they announced that the (fairly new) line of Enduron line of powders was being discontinued. They've killed all the IMR pistol / shotgun powders. There are some close duplications of IMR stick powders in the Accurate powders line. None of the stick powders are made in the US anymore, the IMR and Accurate stick powders are made in Canada. The Hodgdon stick powders are made in Australia.

IMR powder has just about vanished from availability. It's not on any store shelves around here, currently. Online, about the only IMR you can find is 4227. The only stick powders I see for sale are Accurate 4064, 4350, and 2495. LT30 and LT32 are usually available. 5744 has gotten scarce.

I've used Accurate 2495 before subbing for IMR 4895 and it worked well. When I fired a lot of .30-06 in M1 Rifles, I used mostly IMR 4064. But I never got around to trying Accurate 4064, which might be better since it is advertised as a short cut version. I probably will look into Accurate LT32 for .223 Rem. since H322 and IMR 4198 have become so elusive and expensive.

BEWARE: There are a number of bogus and fraudulent online sites offering IMR powder for sale. Stay away from places like USA Hunter and IMR Powder Store .com. They and others are crooks. Red Flags:

1. Show availability of everything in the IMR powder line.

2. Show prices 25-30% lower than any legitimate seller.

3. Take only PayPal, Venmo, etc. One only takes Crypto currencies. If they won't take a mainstream credit card, move on.

For decades IMR 4320 was the factory powder for 308 Winchester, looks like it's gone for good.

My guess is there will be one owner of the powders manufacturers and he will get away with the monopoly because of the wars going on.

I think if people want to insure their ammo supply then they should choose a powder and stock up some. No doubt there will always be some powder available but it may not be what you want.

 

[gmerkt]

For decades IMR 4320 was the factory powder for 308 Winchester, looks like it's gone for good.

Oh yes, this was a good powder but it was discontinued several years ago. I still have a couple of pounds of it, used sparingly. The containers say "DuPont" on them but the powder is still good.

 

[Local Loader]

The operative word is currently. It's been my experience that availability of IMR powders has fallen off significantly in the "past few months" At Cabelas, Sportsmans Warehouse, Skagit Arms and North Sound Armory, at least in this area. The online sites shouldn't vary from one computer to the next, and just this evening I checked Midway, Powder Valley and a few others. I hope the situation improves.

About a month ago, I did find a bottle of IMR 4895 for sale at a small gun shop in Renton, WA, but it was priced at $65 for one pound. That's the reason it was still available.

If Cabelas is going to have a bit of IMR, it usually is 3031.


Yeah, I like H335 myself. But now I'm down to my last half pound or so and I have a lot more bullets and primers than I have powder. For the moment. I've already got a lot of AR15 ammo; I like H322 for my non-AR .223's. I also use 322 and either of the 4198's for .45-70.

The various ball powders seem to be way more available. I've read that stick powders take a lot more time to make, which may be one component to the explanation of shortage / availability.

Not sure what the situation for powder up there is like, but here we've gotten a "steady stream"(using that term loosely) of IMR powders here at multiple shops, I try not to order powders as the ship costs make it a no go for me. So I tend to check out a lot of the local shops and I've found that they've been getting a lot of the powders I use so I just get it then. I don't think I've paid more than $49 a lb locally in a while. As for IMR4895, you should make trips down here more, last I looked it was only around $45 or $50 a lb.

I have noticed that powders shipped to Sportsmans and Cabelas has dropped quite a bit and they don't get them as often as they were but that is slowly starting to be true with all the local shops, depending on the powder you want.

The process to make the stick powders could be a reason for the shortage. I think part of it also is that a number of makers for military ammo supplies still use stick powders in Europe.

 

[gmerkt]

I've been able to find several different IMR powders at local shops,

I would be remiss not to mention that about one month ago, Hodgdon briefly had IMR XBR 8208 available through their own online sales. But I don't think it lasted a single day. Their price was $47. To see what their shipping price might be, I put four, one pound bottles in my cart and shipping was over $50. One state away at Powder Valley, on the same day they were out of stock.

 

[Local Loader]

I would be remiss not to mention that about one month ago, Hodgdon briefly had IMR XBR 8208 available through their own online sales. But I don't think it lasted a single day. Their price was $47. To see what their shipping price might be, I put four, one pound bottles in my cart and shipping was over $50. One state away at Powder Valley, on the same day they were out of stock.

Most have gotten lucky, I found 5lb of that at a local shop for $45 a lb. I don't use it myself but I know some folks that do, so told them about it. I think it just really might come down to luck on who places an order when from vendors.

 

[gmerkt]

Most have gotten lucky, I found 5lb of that at a local shop for $45 a lb. I don't use it myself but I know some folks that do, so told them about it. I think it just really might come down to luck on who places an order when from vendors.

There is a kind of funny story I've read about XBR 8208. It comes from Australia, as does H322. The story was, that XBR 8208 was a failed batch of H322. So rather than discard or reprocess it, they decided to market it as a "new" product. They look alike, speeds are similar. Could me true.

 

[gmerkt]

As for IMR4895, you should make trips down here more, last I looked it was only around $45 or $50 a lb.

The economics of that don't work for me, I don't use enough powder to justify it. For the same reason I don't often order online, as you don't. By the time the shipping and hazmat is figured in, the numbers are off. I've done it a few times over the years on larger orders but not lately.

About six months ago, I did find a single bottle of IMR 4895, the only one Cabelas in Tulalip had. Rotten little bugger cost me $50. But they hadn't had any for a long time prior to that, and none since on trips I've made there.

 

[Local Loader]

The economics of that don't work for me, I don't use enough powder to justify it. For the same reason I don't often order online, as you don't. By the time the shipping and hazmat is figured in, the numbers are off. I've done it a few times over the years on larger orders but not lately.

About six months ago, I did find a single bottle of IMR 4895, the only one Cabelas in Tulalip had. Rotten little bugger cost me $50. But they hadn't had any for a long time prior to that, and none since on trips I've made there.

Yeah the shortage of IMR powders forced me to switch my 30-06 from IMR4896 to Win760 but even that is starting to get hard to find.

 

[gmerkt]

Yeah the shortage of IMR powders forced me to switch my 30-06 from IMR4895 to Win760 but even that is starting to get hard to find.

Yes, I made a similar switch to BL-C(2). I like 748 for .223 Rem. but it can be used for .30-06. All for M1 Rifle loads.

I tried to find some 760 for 7mm Mauser and .243 a month ago, there was none around here. So I took Win. Sta-Ball 6.5, which I've used before for both. Also due to a lack of 760 at the time. Accurate 2700 was also scarce then but I saw some a week ago. Of course Sta-Ball 6.5 is a newer product and costs a little more.

For a while, Hodgdon made H414 and 760 simultaneously, they were the same powder. But I see that H414 is gone now.

We have to stay flexible in these times of scarcity.