Renewed threat to ammo security.

[Local Loader]

Yes, I made a similar switch to BL-C(2). I like 748 for .223 Rem. but it can be used for .30-06. All for M1 Rifle loads.

I tried to find some 760 for 7mm Mauser and .243 a month ago, there was none around here. So I took Win. Sta-Ball 6.5, which I've used before for both. Also due to a lack of 760 at the time. Accurate 2700 was also scarce then but I saw some a week ago. Of course Sta-Ball 6.5 is a newer product and costs a little more.

For a while, Hodgdon made H414 and 760 simultaneously, they were the same powder. But I see that H414 is gone now.

We have to stay flexible in these times of scarcity.

Yeah it doesn't help that they keep releasing more new powders, now there is 2 new sta-ball powders and 3 new shotshell powders. Wish they would just focus on the current established powders first then after making a healthy amount to satisfy the market, then release the new powders, otherwise its likely the new powder lines will be ignored.

 

[gmerkt]

it doesn't help that they keep releasing more new powders

They may not be releasing as many new ones as they used to. The latest new ones that come to my mind are those two you've mentioned, the Sta-Ball powders which are ball. So these new ones come along at a time when fewer stick powder options are even technically available, when not commonly available for sale. I suppose marketing powders is just like any other product, customers like variety and if they can't find enough stick powders to sell, they have to provide more ball powders. And "newer" often sells well, at least for a while.

It's a shame that some of the disappearances include the IMR Enduron powders, those were good stuff. I liked 4166. Hodgdon has announced these are being discontinued. So, that's five powders gone into history. With partial replacement by two new ones, and not in kind as all the Enduron powders were stick and the Sta-Balls are ball.

The decades have been flying by so fast it's all starting to run together for me. So I'm not always up to date on what's what. When Hodgdon gobbled up IMR and Winchester powders, it was to be expected that some powders would be dropped. Here are the ones I can think of, aside from the afore-mentioned IMR Enduron line:

700X
800X
SR4756
SR4759
SR7625
PB
IMR 4320
IMR 4007
IMR 7828

Then there was the "new" line of pistol and shotgun powders designed to compete directly with Alliant products:
Blue
Green
Red
Target
Unequal (which I think never actually made it to market but was advertised
I've read that the above may have been killed by Hodgdon because they wouldn't pass European CE standards ("Conformité Européenne") and they had other already firmly established products to fill in for these. But a good many of the US, Canadian and Australian-made powders wouldn't pass CE.

Winchester branded powders have had a way of coming and going even before Hodgdon took it over. But since then, 780 and AA Lite have disappeared. There was some talk that 231 would be phased out. Reason given was because it was an older chemical process and took longer to make and created more chemical waste to dispose of. Thus far, it's still available. As is its Hodgdon twin, HP38.

I think I mentioned this above, H414 has gone away because it and Win. 760 are the same. But I think it is curious that Hodgdon killed their own name brand of this version, rather than the Winchester branded product.

I'm sure I've left off some powders that have disappeared since circa year 2000. Feel free to add to the list.

Hodgdon also acquired Accurate and Ramshot powders. Which is a business story in itself. Hodgdon got both of these brands when they acquired Western Powers in Montana. Before that, Western Powders had been a distributor for DuPont, and later came out with their own brand, which was Ramshot. They didn't have a factory, they repackaged powders from other manufacturers. Western Powders had previously acquired Accurate powders from Accurate Arms, which at the time was in Tennessee but originally founded in Chicago as a seller of surplus US gov't powders. Accurate transitioned into selling powders packaged for retail that had been made by other companies. I think mostly they are made in Florida now, but I remember having a bottle of AA No. 5 that said, "Made In Israel."
What I don't understand is why Hodgdon keeps duplicate products in the two they got from Western Powders.

Accurate 2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator
Accurate 4100 and Ramshot Enforcer

And maybe some others I don't know about. It would be easy enough to kill one or the other of these duplicates.

Alliant is a solo story, still a separate operation out of the clutches of Hodgdon. They were in business for a long time as Hercules Powder Co., lately owned by Vista Outdoors, but even more recently, Vista was sold to a Czech company. So I don't know if you want to call this a US company now. But they have plant presence here. They continue to make a good many products that they've made for decades. And they've added to their product line along the way. The last few years, you just can't get many of them. Some of their powder is made in Europe and that is subject to demand for military contracts there. Also, with a diverse line of product, it's likely that low demand numbers are deferred from production, and therefore are not available for long periods of time. Meaning, they are concentrating on the big movers. Which is an okay business plan when the market is normal, not subject to panic buying and the demands of war. A system which is moving at moderate, even velocity. Which doesn't describe conditions of the past several years.

I took a tour of the Sierra bullet factory one time. Their basement was filled with green barrels full of various kinds of bullets. This was their reserve supply. Because they couldn't keep the plant tooled up to make everything in their catalog all at once. Basically, they had a system of rotation to fill inventory. The major ammo makers also do this and call it "seasonal production." So it's probably a practice of the powder companies as well.

 

[Mathias]

This comes from the dept of redundancy dept.....

 

[gmerkt]

When now-discontinued IMR Enduron line of powders came out, they were envisioned as replacements as follows:

4166 for H4895/Varget
4451 for the 4350's
4955 for the 4831's
7977 for IMR 7828 / H1000
8133 for Retumbo

Powder Valley still has 4955 shown in their catalog, but it will probably never be coming back in stock.

 

[gmerkt]

Ignore list.

 

[Local Loader]

They may not be releasing as many new ones as they used to. The latest new ones that come to my mind are those two you've mentioned, the Sta-Ball powders which are ball. So these new ones come along at a time when fewer stick powder options are even technically available, when not commonly available for sale. I suppose marketing powders is just like any other product, customers like variety and if they can't find enough stick powders to sell, they have to provide more ball powders. And "newer" often sells well, at least for a while.

It's a shame that some of the disappearances include the IMR Enduron powders, those were good stuff. I liked 4166. Hodgdon has announced these are being discontinued. So, that's five powders gone into history. With partial replacement by two new ones, and not in kind as all the Enduron powders were stick and the Sta-Balls are ball.

The decades have been flying by so fast it's all starting to run together for me. So I'm not always up to date on what's what. When Hodgdon gobbled up IMR and Winchester powders, it was to be expected that some powders would be dropped. Here are the ones I can think of, aside from the afore-mentioned IMR Enduron line:

700X
800X
SR4756
SR4759
SR7625
PB
IMR 4320
IMR 4007
IMR 7828

Then there was the "new" line of pistol and shotgun powders designed to compete directly with Alliant products:
Blue
Green
Red
Target
Unequal (which I think never actually made it to market but was advertised
I've read that the above may have been killed by Hodgdon because they wouldn't pass European CE standards ("Conformité Européenne") and they had other already firmly established products to fill in for these. But a good many of the US, Canadian and Australian-made powders wouldn't pass CE.

Winchester branded powders have had a way of coming and going even before Hodgdon took it over. But since then, 780 and AA Lite have disappeared. There was some talk that 231 would be phased out. Reason given was because it was an older chemical process and took longer to make and created more chemical waste to dispose of. Thus far, it's still available. As is its Hodgdon twin, HP38.

I think I mentioned this above, H414 has gone away because it and Win. 760 are the same. But I think it is curious that Hodgdon killed their own name brand of this version, rather than the Winchester branded product.

I'm sure I've left off some powders that have disappeared since circa year 2000. Feel free to add to the list.

Hodgdon also acquired Accurate and Ramshot powders. Which is a business story in itself. Hodgdon got both of these brands when they acquired Western Powers in Montana. Before that, Western Powders had been a distributor for DuPont, and later came out with their own brand, which was Ramshot. They didn't have a factory, they repackaged powders from other manufacturers. Western Powders had previously acquired Accurate powders from Accurate Arms, which at the time was in Tennessee but originally founded in Chicago as a seller of surplus US gov't powders. Accurate transitioned into selling powders packaged for retail that had been made by other companies. I think mostly they are made in Florida now, but I remember having a bottle of AA No. 5 that said, "Made In Israel."
What I don't understand is why Hodgdon keeps duplicate products in the two they got from Western Powders.

Accurate 2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator
Accurate 4100 and Ramshot Enforcer

And maybe some others I don't know about. It would be easy enough to kill one or the other of these duplicates.

Alliant is a solo story, still a separate operation out of the clutches of Hodgdon. They were in business for a long time as Hercules Powder Co., lately owned by Vista Outdoors, but even more recently, Vista was sold to a Czech company. So I don't know if you want to call this a US company now. But they have plant presence here. They continue to make a good many products that they've made for decades. And they've added to their product line along the way. The last few years, you just can't get many of them. Some of their powder is made in Europe and that is subject to demand for military contracts there. Also, with a diverse line of product, it's likely that low demand numbers are deferred from production, and therefore are not available for long periods of time. Meaning, they are concentrating on the big movers. Which is an okay business plan when the market is normal, not subject to panic buying and the demands of war. A system which is moving at moderate, even velocity. Which doesn't describe conditions of the past several years.

I took a tour of the Sierra bullet factory one time. Their basement was filled with green barrels full of various kinds of bullets. This was their reserve supply. Because they couldn't keep the plant tooled up to make everything in their catalog all at once. Basically, they had a system of rotation to fill inventory. The major ammo makers also do this and call it "seasonal production." So it's probably a practice of the powder companies as well.

I haven't heard anything about 700x or 800x going away, I like 700x but I did hear about the Enduron powders being stopped. I've got powders still marked by their original companies before Hodgdon bought them and changed the labels. Don't forget the ever missed H870 that was stopped years ago. An besides Alliant we still have VV and Shooters World not yet owned by Hodgdon, probably the only reason they have been broken up by the SEC, but it does seem damaging for the consumer market for one company to own nearly 70% of all powder suppliers, sadness true for primers.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I suspect that a lot more powders will be discontinued, nothing can be done to stop it. So the only resort is buy now if we can.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I haven't heard anything about 700x or 800x going away, I like 700x but I did hear about the Enduron powders being stopped. I've got powders still marked by their original companies before Hodgdon bought them and changed the labels. Don't forget the ever missed H870 that was stopped years ago. An besides Alliant we still have VV and Shooters World not yet owned by Hodgdon, probably the only reason they have been broken up by the SEC, but it does seem damaging for the consumer market for one company to own nearly 70% of all powder suppliers, sadness true for primers.

No telling what the future has in store. We may find out that some big company will buy up the ingredients for gun powders and cut the supply. It can happen in these times we are living in.

 

[Xmark1]

Yes, I made a similar switch to BL-C(2). I like 748 for .223 Rem. but it can be used for .30-06. All for M1 Rifle loads.

I tried to find some 760 for 7mm Mauser and .243 a month ago, there was none around here. So I took Win. Sta-Ball 6.5, which I've used before for both. Also due to a lack of 760 at the time. Accurate 2700 was also scarce then but I saw some a week ago. Of course Sta-Ball 6.5 is a newer product and costs a little more.

For a while, Hodgdon made H414 and 760 simultaneously, they were the same powder. But I see that H414 is gone now.

We have to stay flexible in these times of scarcity.

Is H414 gone for good? I have about 8 bottles of the stuff. Lucky, I stocked up. But sad to see it gone.

I too use BLC-(2), the only downside is that it calls for the use of magnum primers in both 5.56 & .308, the rifles I use it in. I chose this powder because I was told Hodgdon developed it for our military for use in 5.56 & 308.

 

[Xmark1]

I suspect that a lot more powders will be discontinued, nothing can be done to stop it. So the only resort is buy now if we can.

I still have several bottles of PB. A great powder that was discontinued because they found a way to make a less expensive alternative.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

That is all nice & good except for the clause that says Americans will be given no special preference when ammo gets difficult to acquire.
If that happens, we have few options left.

You should already have the items needed if you don't you may wish to catch up !

 

[Xmark1]

You should already have the items needed if you don't you may wish to catch up !

And in a perfect world ...................

 

[Local Loader]

And in a perfect world ...................

I'd have won the lottery jackpot by now lol.

 

[Xmark1]

I'd have won the lottery jackpot by now lol.

 

[Local Loader]

View attachment 1771089

I did once, it gave me the sh!ts worse than bad Taco Bell, never again.

 

[Xmark1]

I did once, it gave me the sh!ts worse than bad Taco Bell, never again.

 

[gmerkt]

I still have several bottles of PB. A great powder that was discontinued because they found a way to make a less expensive alternative.

It called for charges in small quantities. A little can of PB would last a long time.

I don't claim to be a chemist, but PB was another one based on an older formulary. More modern chemical processes take less time and produce less waste material. So this may have been a factor in Hodgdon eliminating several of the older DuPont / IMR SR-type powders.

One I miss a lot is SR 4759, that was a stick powder that was very useful for reduced / low recoil loads and cast bullet loads. I've got a pound of it left, but once that's gone, that's it. I'm going by memory, but this was an older powder originally made circa 1935-WW2, then post WW2 to ?, then revived circa 1973?, then discontinued circa 2019. Accurate 5744 will sub for it, but it costs more and these days itself is hard to find.

IMR 4227 is another stick powder that is good for some bottleneck rifle cartridge reduced charge rounds but isn't nearly as versatile as SR 4759.

 

[gmerkt]

I too use BLC-(2), the only downside is that it calls for the use of magnum primers in both 5.56 & .308, the rifles I use it in.

When I switched to BL-C(2) for M1 Rifle loads, I kept a brick of CCI #250 magnum primers. I've also got some #34's which will work.

As we are forced to wean away from stick powders, we have to keep these details in mind. Yet I've noticed that for some powders which in years past called for magnum primers, that notation is no longer present.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I really miss IMR 4756. Lyman book listed a factory duplicate load for 115 grain 9mm using 4756 and it shot the best of any of my 9mm loads.