Planning for societal collapse. Guns or gold?

[Gunner3456]

You might recall that nothing I said in my post said anything about money in the bank. Confiscation? If gold is $1000 per ounce, then 10 million in gold is about 625 pounds. Your brown shirts are not going to confiscate it? I think probably not as gold will be worthless if the scenario you suggest happens.

I am talking about planning ahead. Stockpile the goods you need in a secure place. Do not call attention to them. If the SHTF for real, then gold or any other monetary unit will be worthless to me. Barter will be the new medium of exchange as far as I am concerned. I can do this as I do not live in a city and can survive on my own and protect my family for a while given decent odds in a fight.

Ranb

You're talking about during bad times and I agree.

I asked about what you do with surplus wealth after you have bought everything you could want or store for during the bad times.

How do you store $10 million, right now, for after the bad times? It can't be in barter items because you don't have that much space and you couldn't hide them or protect them.

How?

 

[djm68]

So ya got this all figured out huh?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whistleblower-exposes-jp-morgans-silver-manipulation-scheme

Read it all guys

jj

Thanks for the post, but this is nothing new. The first time the gold market was manipulated was something like 2000 years ago. Currently ALL markets are being manipulated: high frequency trading and dark pools are all secret markets being used to "game" the market, not to mention the derivatives market.

More disturbingly, and the "White Elephant" in the room, the king of manipulated value: the US dollar. Ever wonder why the Fed Reserve will not reveal its balance sheet?

Just my perspective....

DJM

 

[EZLivin]

Since we are on the subject of "manipulation," here is one of my all time favorite quotes (those of you who believe we will soon be reverting back to the stone-age please ignore this):

In all my years of investing, there's one rule I've prized beyond every other: Always bet against central banks and with the real world...Central banks and governments always try to maintain artificial levels, high or low, whether of a currency, a metal, wool, whatever...the smart investor always goes the other way. It may take a while, but I promise you you'll come out ahead."

Jim Rogers, Investment Biker.

 

[rdb241]

"both"

 

[TAT2D]

Can't go wrong with jerkied body parts,that's good barter,everyone wants to eat.tastes like chicken..

Eh? The south pacific cannibals called human flesh 'long pig.'

MrB
(The other other white meat.)

 

[TAT2D]

You have to be able to trade gold for the product you NEED. If the trader dosen't have a $1,000 worth of product.

This idea came up several times, in different ways. What I think a lot of folks have lost sight of is that you can buy gold in increments smaller than an ounce. APMEX shows gold in units down to 1 gram--about $40-45. Likewise, and assuming today's values roughly, buying, say, a gun, you're looking at a half-oz of gold or about two pounds of silver. I know which I'd rather be carrying in my pocket.

The gold might not be appropriate for buying a loaf of bread or box of nails, but everything you'll want/need won't cost under $5.

MrB

 

[SSG]

I think it's kinda funny to think that peeps will be hoarding guns and gold when infact...guns will be banned or ammo scarce...barter, cash, gold transactions will be worthless...as cash will be worthless...

You will be 'chipped', money will be digitized completely...and if you decide to live on bugs like Bear Grylls, trading .22 ammo for a quart of milk...that's doesn't sound like much of a solution to me...

 

[EZLivin]

I think it's kinda funny to think that peeps will be hoarding guns and gold when infact...guns will be banned or ammo scarce...barter, cash, gold transactions will be worthless...as cash will be worthless...
You will be 'chipped', money will be digitized completely..

The assumption I operate under is that the safety/survival actions which have worked for people in the past (Argentina, Germany, etc.) will also work in the future. So to not prepare is, in my opinion, foolish. At some point in the future we may see a cashless society (and the terrible events described in the Book of Revelation), but since nobody knows when those events will occur it seems prudent to plan based upon what has worked throughout modern history.

 

[Member 5605]

To answer original question:
Guns

 

[SSG]

The assumption I operate under is that the safety/survival actions which have worked for people in the past (Argentina, Germany, etc.) will also work in the future. So to not prepare is, in my opinion, foolish. At some point in the future we may see a cashless society (and the terrible events described in the Book of Revelation), but since nobody knows when those events will occur it seems prudent to plan based upon what has worked throughout modern history.

What worked in Argentina and Germany? Hmmm...yeah let's see in Germany they rounded up everyone that wasn't a Nazi, gassed them by the millions...

In Argentina...they 'disappeared' thousands......many of which were flown out over the ocean told to rat out other 'troublemakers' under threat of being thrown overboard...it's much easier to let the fish take care of peeps, the go through the process of camps, mass burials...maybe Pinochet was a student history....

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

This idea came up several times, in different ways. What I think a lot of folks have lost sight of is that you can buy gold in increments smaller than an ounce. APMEX shows gold in units down to 1 gram--about $40-45. Likewise, and assuming today's values roughly, buying, say, a gun, you're looking at a half-oz of gold or about two pounds of silver. I know which I'd rather be carrying in my pocket.

The gold might not be appropriate for buying a loaf of bread or box of nails, but everything you'll want/need won't cost under $5.

MrB

That is flawed thinking. You will not need gold in smaller amounts because in such a situation those values will be meaningless. if someone cannot eat it they will not want it. You are less likely to need gold in smaller denominations than you are to pay 10lbs of gold for a single chicken. If you are starving and have hoarded gold, you will surprised at how fast you become willing to trade it all for a single cow.

 

[Gunner3456]

In Argentina, people were and are allowed to own guns. That probably saved a lot of them since crime was rampant especially early on. Gun and ammo sales skyrocketed after the crash in 2001. Link from 2002, after the crash.

Link In Germany, all guns were confiscated in 1919. Beginning in 1928 some of the "trusted few" were allowed guns by permit. From 1945 under Allied Forces until now they have to get a license for every single gun they own.

Beginning in 1938 Germany, Jews were forbidden to own guns and look what happened to them.

This is a rough explanation of times and rules. Please read links for details.

 

[SSG]

In Argentina, people were and are allowed to own guns. That probably saved a lot of them since crime was rampant especially early on. Gun and ammo sales skyrocketed after the crash in 2001. Link from 2002, after the crash.

Link In Germany, all guns were confiscated in 1919. Beginning in 1928 some of the "trusted few" were allowed guns by permit. From 1945 under Allied Forces until now they have to get a license for every single gun they own.

Beginning in 1938 Germany, Jews were forbidden to own guns and look what happened to them.

This is a rough explanation of times and rules. Please read links for details.

So you think a couple of jews with machine guns would have taken down the Nazi war machine.

Gunner...you need to be 'chipped'

 

[Trlsmn]

So you think a couple of jews with machine guns would have taken down the Nazi war machine.

Gunner...you need to be 'chipped'

Look to the French resistance for your answers to that question. The simple answer is yes the "Jews" rising up with machine guns as apposed to having their rights slowly eroded to the point where they were easily over powered would have made the Nazi German war machine much weaker. This is not a condemnation of Jewish Germany so much as it is a lesson for all oppressed people.

 

[Silver Fox]

In Argentina...they 'disappeared' thousands......many of which were flown out over the ocean told to rat out other 'troublemakers' under threat of being thrown overboard...it's much easier to let the fish take care of peeps, the go through the process of camps, mass burials...maybe Pinochet was a student history....

SSG- This is the first time I have heard of these atrocities, will you send me or post the links to these news stories? I am sure a few thousand corpses washing up on shore would have made the news somewhere.

SF-

 

[EZLivin]

What worked in Argentina and Germany? Hmmm...yeah let's see in Germany they rounded up everyone that wasn't a Nazi, gassed them by the millions...

In Argentina...they 'disappeared' thousands......

I believe you are failing to consider the people who left Germany when they saw what was coming. They used their assets to get out, and to start new lives elsewhere.

Also, I was referring to what worked in the Argentina currency collapse of 2000. Aguirre's book "Surviving the Economic Collapse" is a first-hand account from someone who lived it, and is well worth reading (more than once).

It is always the few who see things coming and protect themselves. The majority never see it, and always find reasons to deny it even as events are unfolding.

 

[Gunner3456]

So you think a couple of jews with machine guns would have taken down the Nazi war machine.

Gunner...you need to be 'chipped'

I don't know what you mean by "chipped" so I'll skip over that.

There were 6 million Jews slaughtered in Hitler's Germany. That doesn't count the ones who hid and the millions who escaped.

I'd say that many armed and determined people could have probably whipped the Nazis.

That's at least three times the number of people total who are currently regulars in our US military and in our reserves and national guard units. Currently our 2+ million members total are scattered all over the world as was Hitler's army. I have no idea how many active and reserve troops we have present on US soil right now, but it's some fraction of the 2+ million total.

I'm sure you know that there are about 80 or 90 million gun owners in the US, holding about 250 million guns and Lord only knows how much ammo after the past two year buying spree.

In revolutions historically, the established leadership and its military doesn't always win against an armed and determined civilian sector. We had a shot fired at Concord Bridge.

Yep. If only the Jews had been armed and determined. Look at them today. I can't believe that anyone thinks they are wimps or pacifists.

 

[Partsproduction]

Far far better to die fighting than to die in a gas chamber.

 

[Gunner3456]

Far far better to die fighting than to die in a gas chamber.

Dang right.

 

[Gunner3456]

PS Regarding what those millions of Jews could have done if they hadn't surrendered their guns -

In all of recorded history, NO guerrilla force has ever been defeated on its own soil. Never.

The mighty Russian army couldn't even take the Taliban.