23 States Move to Reclaim Silver & Gold as Legal Tender

[Bacchus]

23 States

That article is dated almost a year ago.

From the article:

"On the pathway":
Alaska
Arkansas
Arizona
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
New Jersey
Oregon
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Vermont
West Virginia
Wisconsin

Already official:
Utah
Wyoming

The article includes Oklahoma as one of the 23, but they only eliminated the sales tax on precious medals.

Three or four of those states surprised me. The list largely follows Free/Commie state lines, but not entirely.

Many other articles about this on the Internet.

Many articles

Also this YouTube video:
States Move to Make Silver & Gold Money

Some interesting comments regarding the Central Bank Digital Currency. From the link: "CBDCs have faced a plethora of criticisms among those being that a "centrally managed, centrally controlled, CBDC is a tool for coercion and control."

Read More

 

[Nosferatu]

"Hey honey, I'm headed to the gun shop. Can I borrow your earrings?"

 

[Bacchus]

Now we're talkin'!

I'm only going to buy guns from shops that accept gold!

 

[billdeserthills]

Now we're talkin'!

I'm only going to buy guns from shops that accept gold!

Pawn shops?

 

[Bacchus]

Pawn shops?

Good idea!I think almost every pawn shop I've ever been in bought and sold coins.

 

[arakboss]

How will this work when I want to go through the self check at grocery store and pay with silver bar or junk silver?

 

[gmerkt]

How will this work when I want to go through the self check at grocery store and pay with silver bar or junk silver?

It won't, at least for the foreseeable future. I think the biggest advantage of this movement is to bar taxation of the metals. If it is to be considered as money, there isn't any logic in placing a tax on it.

There is some symbolic and psychological value to the idea. In that those people who believe in the inevitable decease of the US Dollar have the concept and possible reality of falling back on PM for money. Which under the circumstances might be a default anyway. The problem with declaring PM to be money in this day and age is that they have become commodities. They don't have stable, established exchange values; these numbers vary from minute to minute in our lovely cyber age. Unlike the era when the US government established a stable exchange rate.

Warshington has exempted gold and silver bullion from sales tax since 1985. Interestingly enough, a few legislative sessions ago, it was attempted to stealthily add new legislation for taxation of PM to one of the assault weapon bans. It didn't happen that year, and when they later got an AWB, the PM tax thing had disappeared. But never fear, in a state where they have successfully passed a tax on air (Carbon Credits Auction), I've no doubt taxing PM will get tossed around again.

 

[gmerkt]

The problem with declaring PM to be money in this day and age is that they have become commodities. They don't have stable, established exchange values; these numbers vary from minute to minute in our lovely cyber age.

And, if the USD implodes, what are we to use as a yardstick to figure out how to assign trade value to PM?

 

[arakboss]

It won't, at least for the foreseeable future. I think the biggest advantage of this movement is to bar taxation of the metals. If it is to be considered as money, there isn't any logic in placing a tax on it.

There is some symbolic and psychological value to the idea. In that those people who believe in the inevitable decease of the US Dollar have the concept and possible reality of falling back on PM for money. Which under the circumstances might be a default anyway. The problem with declaring PM to be money in this day and age is that they have become commodities. They don't have stable, established exchange values; these numbers vary from minute to minute in our lovely cyber age. Unlike the era when the US government established a stable exchange rate.

Warshington has exempted gold and silver bullion from sales tax since 1985. Interestingly enough, a few legislative sessions ago, it was attempted to stealthily add new legislation for taxation of PM to one of the assault weapon bans. It didn't happen that year, and when they later got an AWB, the PM tax thing had disappeared. But never fear, in a state where they have successfully passed a tax on air (Carbon Credits Auction), I've no doubt taxing PM will get tossed around again.

It will never be an easy conversion. If those who are wanting to spend the precious metal want more than a spot price, it will be nearly impossible to use like everyday currency.

 

[lucusloc]

And, if the USD implodes, what are we to use as a yardstick to figure out how to assign trade value to PM?

Precious metals are not money, they are a thing like every other thing you can buy for "value". This is why we cannot go back to a "gold standard" or any other kind of standard. "Value" has become decoupled from physical objects and exists as nothing but a concept.

We can assign rough equivalences of value between objects, as in "this car is worth $3000 and that chair is worth $150", but even that only work in the aggregate. That car may not be worth $3000 to me because I simply do not need another car and I can use that $3000 elsewhere. But our valuation does mean I should be able to sell that car for $3000 to someone, and there are enough of those someones out there that I should be able to find one in a reasonable time frame. If there are not enough of those someones out there willing to pay $3000 for that car that we could find in a reasonable time frame then we all agree that that car is now worth less than $3000. It is worth whatever some large aggregate number of people would be willing to pay for it in a reasonable time period.

So how does gold play into this? Well gold abides by the same rules as cars. It fluctuates based on demand and availability. If more people demand it its perceived value goes up. This includes demand for its use as a currency. There simply is not enough gold (or silver, or copper) to cover the transactional needs of an entire economy. This means you will be able to find more people willing to exchange a higher "value" for the gold than is reasonable for mere everyday transactions. This is why fiat currency was invented. It decouples the concept of "value" from a limited resource and turns it into its own "resource" that can be expanded (or, with some difficulty, contracted) at will.

And if there is no medium of "value" that everyone agrees upon (e.g. if there is rampant inflation in the local fiat currency such that assigning a value to goods is a rapidly moving target) then we have lost the ability to assign comparative values to everything and have entered a barter economy. And barter economies suck, because you have to be able to pay in something the other party wants, and the price will be their perceived value of that object, not yours. In theory this is great, as every successful transaction will maximize value for each party. In practice it sucks because the inertia of all transactions has also hit a maximum and the productive flow of value through society will all but grind to a halt.

 

[arakboss]

Precious metals are not money, they are a thing like every other thing you can buy for "value". This is why we cannot go back to a "gold standard" or any other kind of standard. "Value" has become decoupled from physical objects and exists as nothing but a concept.

We can assign rough equivalences of value between objects, as in "this car is worth $3000 and that chair is worth $150", but even that only work in the aggregate. That car may not be worth $3000 to me because I simply do not need another car and I can use that $3000 elsewhere. But our valuation does mean I should be able to sell that car for $3000 to someone, and there are enough of those someones out there that I should be able to find one in a reasonable time frame. If there are not enough of those someones out there willing to pay $3000 for that car that we could find in a reasonable time frame then we all agree that that car is now worth less than $3000. It is worth whatever some large aggregate number of people would be willing to pay for it in a reasonable time period.

So how does gold play into this? Well gold abides by the same rules as cars. It fluctuates based on demand and availability. If more people demand it its perceived value goes up. This includes demand for its use as a currency. There simply is not enough gold (or silver, or copper) to cover the transactional needs of an entire economy. This means you will be able to find more people willing to exchange a higher "value" for the gold than is reasonable for mere everyday transactions. This is why fiat currency was invented. It decouples the concept of "value" from a limited resource and turns it into its own "resource" that can be expanded (or, with some difficulty, contracted) at will.

And if there is no medium of "value" that everyone agrees upon (e.g. if there is rampant inflation in the local fiat currency such that assigning a value to goods is a rapidly moving target) then we have lost the ability to assign comparative values to everything and have entered a barter economy. And barter economies suck, because you have to be able to pay in something the other party wants, and the price will be their perceived value of that object, not yours. In theory this is great, as every successful transaction will maximize value for each party. In practice it sucks because the inertia of all transactions has also hit a maximum and the productive flow of value through society will all but grind to a halt.

I agree that barter economies suck.

We ask a lot of our fiat currency. It would be very difficult for precious metals to fill the same role. Have you tried creating precious metal supply out of 1s and 0s? It's not easy.

 

[arakboss]

My bartering attempts at trading reloading supplies in exchange for food was not very successful. The reloading supplies were in high demand and the food was readily available. I had access to target audience and uninterrupted access to communication with them. In other words the best of times. I can imagine the failures I would have had if I had to go door to door trying to trade primers for ramen.

 

[Stomper]

"Hey honey, I'm headed to the gun shop. Can I borrow your earrings?"

I always figured you for a, "wearing women's high-heeled shoes" kinda guy…..

 

[kmk1012]

My bartering attempts at trading reloading supplies in exchange for food was not very successful. The reloading supplies were in high demand and the food was readily available. I had access to target audience and uninterrupted access to communication with them. In other words the best of times. I can imagine the failures I would have had if I had to go door to door trying to trade primers for ramen.

I remember those ads. The only issue was distance, most people wouldn't want to drive round trip to trade a bag of dried beans or something. If the overall "purchase" was large enough then it may have attracted more interest. Even though I could have used some of the primers you were offering up, I still would have been cheaper for me to overpay down here to the South once fuel and time were factored. Now, if times really do get bad enough, we may see pop up barter type swap meets with much better results.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Golden buggy whips are where it's at.

 

[Nosferatu]

I always figured you for a, "wearing women's high-heeled shoes" kinda guy…..

Hey now, they keep the cape from dragging on the ground!

 

[Camelfilter]

My bartering attempts at trading reloading supplies in exchange for food was not very successful. The reloading supplies were in high demand and the food was readily available. I had access to target audience and uninterrupted access to communication with them. In other words the best of times. I can imagine the failures I would have had if I had to go door to door trying to trade primers for ramen.

That's just it. In a barter economy you shouldn't go door to door AND expect success.

Bartertown.

Market, fixer, exchange, dealer, trade shop etc etc. Whatever terminology you wish to use where "buyers" & "sellers" can increase chances of successful trades.

 

[CamoDeafie]

That's just it. In a barter economy you shouldn't go door to door AND expect success.

Bartertown.

Market, fixer, exchange, dealer, trade shop etc etc. Whatever terminology you wish to use where "buyers" & "sellers" can increase chances of successful trades.

Bazaars. Shopping districts. Malls.

Exchanges (where to get a note/check for amount of PMs)

Currently, pawn shops are the closest to a modern version of the gold/silver exchangers?

Edit
I don't think most banks will accept gold & silver if they're not already in bullion with values marked?

 

[Bacchus]

I think the point might be to prevent the feds from banning metal as a currency by private entities.

And I think it works as a currency right now, if you state your prices as something like "$20 or 1 troy ounce of silver or $1.40 junk silver coins". And I think the states can mint their own coins, just call them something other than a dollar.

For sure you don't want CBDC as the currency. That would be total control of your lives by the fed.

Bitcoin might work also. I always liked Bitcoin as a currency, but as an investment I think it's a Ponzi scheme. I guess you can get in and make a lot of money if you get out in time.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't think most banks will accept gold & silver if they're not already in bullion with values marked?

Some banks sell it. There was a scandal a few years ago where a Canadian bank was buying gold bars from the Canadian Mint and selling them to customers. Then a customer discovered that his particular bar he bought from the bank was counterfeit and when he tried to get the bank to refund his money, the bank refused. The bank probably thought the customer switched coins and was trying to get money for his own counterfeit (which may be how it got into the bank's inventory in the first place } . The Mint investigated and determined that the fake bar was indeed fake, but was not minted or shipped by the Mint. I think the banks need somebody who knows what they're doing to verify any gold purchases they make.

Fake gold bar sold by bank