Planning for societal collapse. Guns or gold?

[slingshot1943]

I have a local friend that always makes fun of me for buying guns and ammo instead of investing more money in gold. He is a big believer in buying gold and hoarding food stuffs in case things go south. Thing is, he does not like guns or violence. Whenever we discuss this I always tell him I do not need to stockpile food or gold since he lives close by and has no guns.

Even though that is said tongue in cheek I always feel that people who discuss the collapse of society and use that as a reason to buy gold are so off the mark. If society actually collapse fresh water would be worth more than an object like gold. Gold's value is entirely created in our minds. It does not serve a real need. Therefore in a true collapse scenario it will not be desirable. A carrot would be worth more than a chunk of gold as big as your head.

In other words, ever bullet I own will be worth 100 times it's weight in gold simply because it offers one of the most desired needs, the need to feel protected and to defend your resources, so I see it as a better investment if the collapse of civilization is your fear.

Thoughts.

I can't wait to make my bullets out of that cheap gold

 

[Ding]

Can't go wrong with jerkied body parts,that's good barter,everyone wants to eat.tastes like chicken..

 

[willseeker]

 

[MissJ]

I guess that what I'm thinking is that you can only use so many guns, right? I mean there are only so many different types you need and you can only fire 1-2 at a time. Instead of just stockpiling more guns, why not "diversify" with something like gold or silver. Gold MIGHT still have value if TSHTF, and maybe it won't but it will still have SOME value in any type of a functioning future economy. And if we somehow make it through this crisis with our economy intact, the gold will still have value. What could you possibly do with excess guns? You don't want to barter with them and arm your competition. So provided that you have reached a point where you have "enough" guns and ammo (whateve enough means!) then why not buy some gold or silver, it can't hurt...

 

[Gunner3456]

You are missing the point. You are trying to answer the question based on investment principles of a stable economy. If no economy existed anymore then gold and silver will only have as much value as the person you are bartering with determines it to have. There will be no set value. Where as a bullet and a gun capable of firing it will always have real world value. When a group of your neighbors decides to cook you up in a stew, which do you think will be better at preventing that? 20 silver coins or a shotgun and 20 shells?

That's not true. When necessary items become scarce things like gold and silver with no intrinsic value become useless. No one will part with a chicken for 100lbs of gold if it is the only chicken alive within 100 miles.

There have been many times during history where the traditional measure of value has been discarded due to necessity. There is an old saying that roughly translates to "all the gold you can carry will not buy you a drop of water in a desert."

Exactly.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I guess that what I'm thinking is that you can only use so many guns, right? I mean there are only so many different types you need and you can only fire 1-2 at a time

You are missing two really important points. I may be only able to shoot one or two guns at a time but there are at least two other factors to consider.

One, I might ally myself with others who would need to be armed too, and...

...two, a man might not sell one of his three cows for a million dollars worth of gold if he needed it to eat, but he might trade one of his cows for a means to defend himself and his other two cows.

 

[ajf1]

I would have to say both. Gold for the short term while the collapse is going on and our money is devalued to the point where gold is the only real way to deal with the few bussiness' that are still operating. Then as it gets worse then trading for things would come in to play. But I have doubts that it would get that bad. Wars would break out before total collapse even on our own land, it might not be a war as we know or are used to but it might be a series of transactions from a different goverment. I go by the GAG theory. Gold ammo and guns

 

[willseeker]

...three. I dont think we understand what the dynamics of a collapsed society would look like. Gold nor guns nor cows will be bought or traded the way they are now. There will be so much fear, anger, confusion that there wont be rational dealings like we do in civilized society. Trade your gun for as cow and it may be turned on you. Of course, you could always squirt them in the eye with a lactating teat.
Seriously, you will be on your own. Those fortunate enough to have family and very close friends will be fortunate indeed. The rest of us better have a gun or 20, some grain and water stocked away. Alright, alright! a little gold.

 

[Gunner3456]

Silver is what you could spend imho. An ounce of gold is now well over $1k. How do you buy a couple of loaves of bread with that? Silver the size of a dime is worth about $1.70 today. A silver dollar sized piece of the same has about $15 - $17 worth of silver in it at today's prices. Much easier to barter with?

Gold for stashing away wealth, silver for spending, and don't forget the guns and ammo.

Don't worry about food and water. We get those from the anti-gun folks.

 

[RVTECH]

Remember the Twilight Zone Episode "The Rip Van Winkle Caper"

 

[Searcher451]

The Wall Street Journal recently ran an article which said that gold, silver, and guns were the great investments of our time. It might well be that both of you are correct.

 

[ikona]

One could always melt the gold down to make bullets. Wait, that was silver I was thinking of

I know that we gun owners/outdoorsman like to think about TEOTWAWKI and how we are much more able to survive because of our hobbies. Perhaps it could be true but I am not to sure. Gold.....it was mentioned on how is the exchange rate going to work for purchasing needed items. Can't eat it, can't plant it, can't do too much unless others are interested in it. Guns.....a couple are good for emergencies and such but are we really going to be able to hold off the hoards during a complete societal breakdown were to occur? From our homes? Even if we live in the woods, are we really prepared to live "off the grid" and shoot anyone who walks down the gravel driveway? What about the infirmed, the old, our parents and relatives, what are we going to do with them? Do we depend on medication ourselves? What are we going to do? Really, there is only so much that we can do unless we really live somewhere off the grid like up north in Alaska or Canada. And even then we aren't going to be completely self efficient unless we are there now. IMHO the best we can do is keep ourselves out of debt, have a good selection of seeds to plant, a good understanding of how to recover seeds from our crops, keep a reasonable selection of ammo for emergencies, and a plan on how to live in a hostile and or impoverished situation.

 

[accurateone]

Thanks Blackfeather7 appreciate the balance in your approach.
Accurateone.

 

[ikona]

Remember the Twilight Zone Episode "The Rip Van Winkle Caper"

Great one. All for naught

 

[Siglvr]

When Gold was $280 an oz I'd be buying it. The cost, on aggregate, was more than that to mine it, per oz. This was an imbalance which the market would eventually correct, but allowed for a no-brainer buy. Now, it is above the price to mine it. So the cost will be moving down at some point. Yet the US economic situation is very unstable, and that is driving the price up, bit of a conflict and a guessing game. If you think gold and silver is the way to go, have at it. Gold MAY go up another $1000 an oz. But it's all speculation.

As some of you have noted, your water needs are critical. true. And we all have guns. for most of us, way too many. I have enough for my neighbors if needed, who are also my friends. I don't plan on leaving my home, for this is where all I value is. I have a water filter and live a 1/2 mile from a year round river in case my gutters don't give it to me.

What you need to do is have some of each of the things mentioned previously: but mostly what all of you need, that I haven't seen mentioned: more than silver and gold: is #10 cans of freeze dried Mt House food. Mountain House is the best of the freeze dried foods. It's tasty, nutritious, and will store for 30 years. Buy some, sleep easy tonight.

Don't buy the pouched foods, for that only has a 5-7 year shelf live. The #10 cans have had nitrogen pumped in to increase the storage life and ability. Put it in a cool basement and it will most likely outlast you. Pick up enough for your neighbors too, so you can all sit down and eat in peace and don't all have to start getting crazy and shooting at each other. If food prices go crazy, you'll have actual food to bargain for fresh vegetables and fruits if you want. When you get old, if the SHTF scenario never hit, instead of eating the cat food and starving like other seniors, you'll be living like a king. LOL!

 

[zeezee]

When the SHTF how much of his gold is going to have to spend to hire someone to defend him, his family & his property? Or to purchase a firearm once they have been outlawed? Me, if I were rich or bought gold when it was $200 an oz, would like to have tons of both but . . . Wish in one hand a shft in the other and see which fills up first. So I'll slick with the firearms I have and continue to purchase & reload ammo.

 

[I-Shoot]

I think that a bumpy decline over a couple of years is more likely than one day we wake up and civilization no longer exists and we're bartering with our neighbors... Over the first half of those years, as an unstable economy disintegrates but still exists, I suspect that there will still be the basis to sell gold. I bought a bunch when I sold my house, I'm starting to sell it back now. My fear is that once it reaches, say, $1,500 things will be so bad in general that there will be no buyers - at least locally...

The next factor in all of this - regarding being able to sell gold at a fair market value during/after our economic collapse - will be the test of just how integrated the global economy really is. If we go down, will we take the world with us? Or if we collapse, will there still be an international gold market to sell into? Countries are already lining up to buy our business, real estate, etc. at bargain prices as the dollar loses value, no reason to believe they won't be willing to buy our gold too.

And then yes, I agree that if we hit bottom it won't be worth much, unless you need a tooth filled.

 

[markw76]

In my sometimes-considered opinion, gold is much better a vehicle at preserving value during tough-but-not-apocalyptic times. It certainly did better than anything those chumpos at Goldman-Sachs et al offered in the last couple years. If I were sitting on a quantity of it, and I'm not, I'd dole it out as needed for long term food, fuel, and etcetra needs instead of using plastic. That reminds me. Just try and sell a significant quantity when the price is up! Everyone I've talked to has limits during such times. Liquidity is limited unless the metal is in familiar forms, like coinage with a value or weight on it.

 

[pogi]

Both.

 

[endthefed]

In a SHTF situation, gold would be useless. Water, fuel, ammo and other necessities. Think of it, if you're starving and scared would jewelry make you feel better? When you're on foot do you want 7 lbs of water or 7 lbs of gold.
As an investment, gold sucks. Since the opening of the stockmarket gold has averaged something like 4.5%. Not so hot.
There is one situation where gold would be a good buy and that is if the dollar sinks in value but most other countries are doing okay. Could anyone imagine that happening?