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Planning for societal collapse. Guns or gold?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by PlayboyPenguin, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    I have a local friend that always makes fun of me for buying guns and ammo instead of investing more money in gold. He is a big believer in buying gold and hoarding food stuffs in case things go south. Thing is, he does not like guns or violence. Whenever we discuss this I always tell him I do not need to stockpile food or gold since he lives close by and has no guns.

    Even though that is said tongue in cheek I always feel that people who discuss the collapse of society and use that as a reason to buy gold are so off the mark. If society actually collapse fresh water would be worth more than an object like gold. Gold's value is entirely created in our minds. It does not serve a real need. Therefore in a true collapse scenario it will not be desirable. A carrot would be worth more than a chunk of gold as big as your head.

    In other words, ever bullet I own will be worth 100 times it's weight in gold simply because it offers one of the most desired needs, the need to feel protected and to defend your resources, so I see it as a better investment if the collapse of civilization is your fear.

    Thoughts.
     
  2. Fjolnirsson

    Fjolnirsson Western Oregon Member

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    I'd say you have more of the right idea. Water, food , guns, ammo, "junk" silver. More of the same. If, at some point, you feel you have "enough" of these things, it might be good to pick up some small amounts of gold. But if someone thinks a gold bar is going to do anything for them in a SHTF situation, they're nuts. .22 ammo, foodstuff, and barterable skills are far more important. You can't pick any one thing, it has to be a way of life.

    Further, that gold will last right up until the point someone decides to take it from him. But, some people have to learn the hard way.
     
  3. Spray-n-pray

    Spray-n-pray Battle Ground Moderator Staff Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Gold is great if you are using it as an investment, but as a food source it leaves much to be desired. I think it more important to stock up on guns, ammo, food, water, or any other survival equipment before sinking any money into gold. Personally, all of my asset precious metals are wrapped up in copper jacketed lead!
     
  4. Sun195

    Sun195 Pugetropolis, WA Well-Known Member

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    Guns definitely; gold maybe. I've got mixed feelings about gold.

    On the one hand, gold can be difficult to exchange in times of trouble. If I'm trying to get some gas for my car or bread for my family, and whip-out some gold krugerrands to pay for it - what's my change? Two chickens & a goat? Maybe three goats? How does the other person properly value this? This is especially true now that gold is so highly priced - it's kind of like trying to buy a Chicklet at the mini-mart with a $100 bill. Gold is also heavy to lug around.

    On the other hand, gold does have a looooong history of value in human civilization. Most people will probably look at something made out of gold and say "that has value" even if their stomachs are empty, because they could maybe get that gold and trade it for food later. People have been indoctrinated for a long time (since ancient history) to think that gold has value & that thinking will be hard to shake (even when times are dire & other priorities should take precedence). There is a long history of gold coinage being used in trade even when the empire/society/ruler that minted it has been long-gone.

    So, I would never put all of my eggs in one basket by holding a lot of gold, but I could imagine situations (maybe complete fantasy situations, but never the less...) where it might be useful to have.
     
  5. Wenis

    Wenis Tri-Cities, WA Member

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    If it was my retirement fund that I saw taking huge losses in the stock market, sure, I would consider investing in precious metals, but for the SHTF scenarios people speak of in a bartering society, gold only works if the local community accepts it as tender. If life actually came to that, I don't see anyone accepting gold because aside from conductivity, it's useless.

    However, beyond a couple guns for hunting and protection, I wouldn't make a gun collection an investment for such a SHTF scenario either. If you are using them to barter, why would you want to arm someone else? The excess guns then only become slightly better than gold. You can only shoot one gun at a time (maybe two), so have some guns for varying capabilities, but a safe full of similar 1911s or revolvers serves little use. In a modern, polite society, a collection of any sort is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
     
  6. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    Gold has no intrinsic value - other than it's shiny. It really depends on how far south things go. If they go south a fair amount, gold could be used for currency- inflation or instability making cash useless. But if it _really_ goes south, it's going to be less than useless, possibly even a liability.
     
  7. willseeker

    willseeker N. Portland. Well-Known Member

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    Well it seems the topic of a 'Calorie Based Economy' has hit the stage. Yes in times of SHTF,(whatever that might end up looking like), we will revert to a barter system where my days labor would be worth a couple loaves of bread or chickens or maybe even water. With an innevitable financial crisis looming, fuel costs may skyrocket, trucks may not deliver tomatoes from 2000 miles away and local infrasructure such as garbage pick up, mail and electricity might be sporadic. Stored foods may well be worth more than gold or silver. We'll be waiting a long time for the long haul trucker to deliver coffee from South America. The new way of life will be locally based in communities that offer direct services for goods.
    Now comes the tricky part, transitions like this are never smooth. Ipso Facto Pepto Bismol, guns and ammo will also play an integral part in the new economy. Some may believe they dont have to trade labor or services for goods and may somehow feel entitled to them. (commonly referred to as stealing) Protecting family and yes, even liberal non-gun advocates will be needed.
    So yes, 1) food, 2) water, 3) guns are all important and if you are so inclined put on some bling in your safe as well.
     
  8. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    You just made me think of something - Medicine. Penicillin, aspirin, any medications you normally cruise on down to pharmacy to pick up...

    (I think it was your pepto bismal :) )
     
  9. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    I agree - gold is only useful in a financial collapse where recovery is expected. The survival blog article about the 2001 Argentina financial collapse had a section on gold there and he stated that junk gold was more useful as you get street value for it - which is less than actual value, but better return on investment than you'd get trying to sell high quality gold coins.
    Guns are a better investment to a certain extent. A well rounded collection could help you defend and feed yourself. Defensive handguns, a high caliber rifle, small caliber rimfire rifle and a shotgun would be a minimum probably.
    Beyond that it depends how bad the SHTF.
    What happens if you're away from home and the SHTF and you can't return to your home where all your guns are stored. How many people actually keep more than their CCW with them? The only weapon I keep in my truck all the time is an air rifle. All I could shoot with that is small animals and birds - it will take a turkey if you hit it in the head, which is not too hard to do.

    I think a better investment would be to get a few of these and make sure you always have one with you.

    I think the best thing is to have at least one handgun with you all the time, with at least 3 magazines (one in the weapon, two on your belt).
    Your primary vehicle should then have more ammo or full magazines (I like the 32 round Glock mags for my G19) and if you can justify it, a truck gun. I think a good option for this would be a lever action rifle in .308.

    Guns at home in the safe. If you're lucky enough to be home, or get home, then you should already have a plan including ready made emergency kits and supplies. The priority as has already been stated is water. I keep a basic emergency kit (24 hours) in the truck, and a more substantial one in the garage (72 hours food and supplies)
    I certainly won't be bringing all my weapons and ammo.
    I'd grab 3 long guns, a molle vest and a backpack - both prepacked and ready to go.
    That would give me a 12 gauge pump with 20 slugs and 110 buckshot, a .22 rifle with 2000 rounds of LR, and an AR15 with 400 rounds in magazines, and another 400 rounds of 9mm JHP for my carry Glock.
     
  10. willseeker

    willseeker N. Portland. Well-Known Member

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    Good point and good link ORBrit. Too much gold and guns, need water:)
     
  11. wavo

    wavo Portland Member

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    +1 on the clean water, if things were really nasty and tough that would be a life saver.

    I echo most other people's sentiments, spread out your 'investment' in guns, golds, ammo, maybe even canned goods. If things really got tough it's more likely that someone would want to barter your canned goods or some ammo than your chunks of gold. It just depends on how deep and bad thing get.
     
  12. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I feel gold is a good tool in a massive inflation of the dollar situation as it will hold it's value in a world such as the Nazi Germany depression. In an all out SHTF world it will be worthless.

    I look at it very simply, If my two boys are starving and I have 2 Bacon Blue cheese burgers to feed them with no guarantee there will be a Bacon Blue cheese burger in the near future I wouldn't trade said Bacon Blue cheese burger for a pound of Gold! The moral of this story? Damn I'm hungry for a Bacon Blue cheese burger right now! :thumbup:
     
  13. wavo

    wavo Portland Member

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    NO kidding. Now where can we find a delicious Bacon Bleu Cheese burger at 9:45 on a sunday morning? :laugh:
     
  14. sigman

    sigman Olympia, Wa Member

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    The funny thing about gold is it will only be worth what the other person is willing to give you for it. Right now it is over $1,000 an once but if the world as we know it come to an end. It would be way higher. But on the other hand. You have to be able to trade gold for the product you NEED. If the trader dosen't have a $1,000 worth of product. You either trade for what you need and lose some value. Or you have to be able to stop the guy who now knows you have gold from taking it! A gun works both ways where the gold can not defend you.
     
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    The truth that Gold hoarders don't take into consideration is the very real possibility of synthesizing Gold cheaply in the near future. Gold can be synthesized now but not cost effectively.
     
  16. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Just a few observations, within the context of the SHTF and without.
    The gun's value is dependent on the character of the person holding it, but has value none the less.
    In the hands of one willing to intimidate and steal it does one thing, it provides.
    In the hands of one NOT willing to steal it protects.

    The value of gold may turn into a liability without the gun. It may cost you your life.

    So a gun without gold still has value no matter which side you are on.
    Gold on the other hand, (especially in SHTF) has value only when accompanied by the gun.
     
  17. Monkeyman

    Monkeyman Portland, OR Member

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    At risk of echoing other posters, gold has value today because a majority of people believe in it as a store of value (much the same way we used to feel about the dollar).

    Gold will continue to hold value as long as people perceive it so. If a post-collapse market for goods and services should develop (once people get beyond survival mode; there is no trade without surplus) gold or silver would most likely be an acceptable medium of exchange because of its track record.

    While most here recognize the value of lead, water and food, a small store of gold or silver might come in handy. Yes, it'll be hard to get change for a Krugerrand at the tradin' post, but smaller coins, chains, and rings will do nicely.
     
  18. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Gold and silver coins are being shipped in from China that are fake as can be. Make sure you know who you buy from.

    jj
     
  19. Randini

    Randini Salem Member

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    I see that getting gold to hold as looking past the SHTF, for having something that is very good in a recovery stage, other than that I'd go with silver, like has been pointed out if gold is say $1000. an oz and you are look'in for 5 gal. of gas do you want to over spend. Ammo would be just as good if not better, lots will not be well prepped for a "SHTF I'am in big doo doo now".
     
  20. hefftuck

    hefftuck the Specific Northwest Member

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    i'll take $1,000 of ammo over $1,000 of gold, any day