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Jamie, I had no idea you drive an Escalade. Sorry man.

Got me on the K car though. You're right - the K car is what 'saved' Chrysler, until the next bailout.
 
Now that's the first time my Toyota was EVER referred to as an "Escalade."

I haven't owned a Cadillac since the early '70s. And only then because it was a collector car.
That doesn't even make the "nice try" category!
 
Oh Jamie, Jamie, Jamie.

To explain, what I was doing was 'teasing' you. Merriam Webster defines teasing as 'to disturb or annoy by persistent irritating or provoking, especially in a petty or mischievous way.' Sorry for any confusion I caused you.

But, you and I have at least one thing in common. I roll a '93 4Runner with damn near a quarter million miles. Hard to beat a Toyota.

That said, I think I'm going to draw my participation in this thread to a close. At these junctures, I try to remember the saying about arguing on the Internet and the Special Olympics.

It's clear you and I see things very differently. Although you and I have reached very different conclusions about the causes and solutions to our problems, I suspect we also have more than just Toyotas in common. I bet you want a stable, secure future for yourself, and your children, if you have any.

My best to you Jamie. Wherever we go and whatever happens, I hope you make it through.
 
Oh yeah, the Swedes, the Finns and the Norwegians have it great!
World tax rates: <broken link removed> <--- LINK

Norwegian tax rates:

The Finns pay:

And last but not least, the Swedes:

I didn't post Denmark, but they're right there with the rest of the Scandinavians.

Keep in mind that a VAT, Value Added Tax is nothing more than a national sales tax.
So on money that you earn and spend on VAT items, you are taxed at (roughly) a rate of:

Norway = 65%
Finland = 74%
Sweden = 82.77%


Oh yeah, that's just great MikeE. A MUCH higher AVERAGE tax than the richest American currently pays.
I don't think you can sell that pile-o-$h17 'round here, but your efforts certainly prove what's wrong with your socialist approach!

Like I said. It's time to put down the shovel.
You do realize that VAT does not work like a sales tax. The VAT in Sweden is 25% but as the end user you only pay 8%-12% depending on the product. That's because the 25% is the tax on the original manufacturing cost of the product not the marked up retail price. So people in Sweden pay the same "sales tax" as Washington State.

Also if you look at the added benefits of free health care and pension plan it actually ends up pretty close to what we pay in the US.

I lived in Finland for 2 years and their government does have problems however you could see where the tax money was going.
 
Well, I guess that settles the issue of the VAT scheme of taxation.
Take note also, of the corporate tax structure included in the tax rates of the countries I posted.
Do you socialist types not realize that those taxes get passed on to the price of the company's products?
As an element of overhead, of course it does.

When socialism is held under the scrutinization of econ 101-102, the results above are ALWAYS the case.
The government is grossly inefficient. Therefore their solutions are notorious for being the most costly.

But the key that most socialist advocates miss, (or intentionally hide from their followers) is that there is STILL a huge disparity between the incomes of those that rule, and those that are ruled. The principle problem being that to do so enables those in public office to become more firmly entrenched.
So when you elect someone, you better REALLY like their policies, cuz you're going to be stuck with them a while!

So, do we allow the socialists to raise the price of oil as a tool for suppression of our freedoms? Using junk science that ignores key pathways out of the current debacle?
Or do we stand up and elect people that make decisions on energy policy that are friendly towards the independent working person?
Thereby empowering us little people.
Trust me, TRUE empowerment of the little people is related to allowing you to maintain your independence.

NOT in empowering you only if you're part of a "COMMUN(E)ity."
 
Unfortunately there are too many who have voted for the socialist so oil and coal are on the hit list for our energy use. Socialist will do everything to change our lifestyles rather than develop real solutions to our energy needs. Socialist are about behavior but only your behavior not theirs. When they fail which they always do it leads to communism and the murder of millions.

What should really concern you guys is the socialist have now joined with the Muslim extremist in taking over middle east countries. Oil may soon be a luxury item.

jj
 
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This statement is wrong, if the VAT Tax is 25% then you pay 25% more whether it is the way of a tax or price increase!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Generally speaking you wind up paying about 27% on a 25% VAT tax beause the company that you are paying has to administer (calculate the increase and work involved the increase) so they pass that on to thier customers. No company out there eats the costs of taxes they pass it on to their customers.

Yes Europe is a mess because of the social programs and crazy taxes they impose oneverything and everybody.

on that note: i purchase products from Sweden and Finland on occasion... since i'm purchasing as a non-resident, and it's being exported; no VAT... so generally 25% off of the "vat included" price of whatever it is i'm buying.

my wife and children are finnish citizens, i'm close enough to becoming one.
comparing what i pay for in income and sales taxes, with what my father-in-law pays (as a finnish citizen, in finland); his income tax is a significantly higher percentage of his pay. the items he purchases cost significantly more due to vat. his health care is taken care of by the government, while my insurance is (mostly) covered by my employer (which brings up the conversation of owning a company in the US compared to finland, for another time). the social services are much greater in finland... but you pay for it through taxes. fuel prices are way the **** higher, because of taxes. vehicle taxes; higher. "we'll take everything you have, and provide you with what you need"...
 

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