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On the sheepdog mentality

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by spengo, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    I decided to make this it's own thread to keep the off topic drama that is sure to ensue out of the open carry thread.

    It's a good article if you're a pretentious, self aggrandizing mall ninja.

    I carry to protect myself, but I don't let it make me think I'm somehow better than those who don't. I will protect others if I can, but it will always be a secondary objective to protecting myself and those I care about. It is not my duty to protect the so-called "sheep" and I am certainly not about to go "sniffing around the perimeter" looking for trouble. You are not the police. You are not Charles Bronson. Do not let the gun go to your head.
     
  2. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I thought about that too, the whole protecting the sheep thing. If i see someone getting executed then i could probably do something, but the thing that pisses me off is that most sheep look down on me because i have a gun. I have my chl and when i open carry they look at me like i am the bad guy, and i can understand. Most sheep are brain washed and ignorant. So why would I wanna put my behind on the line for them? Friends and family and loved ones........ that is one thing, but now days after what i've experienced with the public, let them get their own guns and protect their own lives. but as a human being i will do what i can using my best judgment, my life comes before the sheep's life. I am also sure that they would love to make and example out of me in court........ so thanks but no thanks.
     
  3. tattoo

    tattoo NorthWest Active Member

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    Spengo. Thanks for starting this here. :) I am one who feel if it weren't for the sheep dogs, then some of the sheeple who only care for themselves, would not be here long, after the wolf shows its fangs. I for one JOINED MY MARINE CORP to protect the USA and ALL the people who live here. let them get there own gun. BS. YA PISSED ME OFF. Biggie24420. I am done.

    Please forgive my rant. I don't usually get ticked, but this is the exemption. :(
    Dave
     
  4. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'll stand up and protect someone I do not know. Looking out for #1 is a selfish and careless way to live. No one deserves to be beat down, hurt or killed for no reason. We need more people in this world to stand up and help protect the weaker, not more of the Looking out for #1 crowd!
     
  5. The Quiet Man

    The Quiet Man rural Washington County, Oregon Active Member

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    +1. I was a soldier, but am no longer... at least in the context of being able to rely on my former brothers for help if I run into trouble. or being relied upon to help them out when they need help. I am not a cop and have never played one on TV. I carry to protect myself and my family. Anyone else who gets helped out of a jam by my actions was likely only in the right place at the right time. I'm not saying I would NEVER help anyone else out, but that is not my primary role or responsibility. In fact, I have no legal authority to take any situation into my own hands. Moral authority, you ask? Well, everyone must make that decision on their own, and act accordingly. I have found that one's desire to protect (and feeling of responsibility for the safety of) the world is inversely proportional to one's age and cynicism level. Just my two cents.
     
  6. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Anytime you group such a broad number of people into such small boxes you end up with a problem.

    I believe in the statement 'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'. My sense of duty to my fellow man puts me far closer to sheepdog than sheep.

    I hear what your saying about not playing cop or looking for opportunities to play hero; however, I will not stand before my Maker and say 'it wasn't my fight'.

    I also agree that all too often we give the tool more credit than it deserves. Simply having a gun does not make you prepared. Like so many things in life, equipment is (at best) 20% of the game.
     
  7. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    I for one would protect people I didn't know in the event of a dangerous encounter. The only exception would be if I saw something in the middle of it going on, without knowing the whole story. Say if I saw someone get shot, but it was clear there was a situation before that. In that case, I don't know who the aggressor was and if the person who made the shot was actually defending themselves. However if they turned their aggression to someone who was clearly not involved in that situation, especially myself, the story would quickly change as I would be able to make that assessment, that they were the aggressor.
    Seeing it from the beginning and knowing everything going on, say like a store robbery or mugging or something, there is no question in my mind I would do what I could to help the person(s) being attacked. If that meant just calling 911 for them, or if need be putting rounds into the attacker, I would, depending on what the situation called for. I, myself, can not just stand around and turn my back on innocent people getting hurt or killed. I don't know, call me human or something, it's a flaw I guess.
     
  8. Correctthought

    Correctthought The big PDX and Vicinity Member

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    I do so for the protection of my family and myself.

    Dunno about third parties, hopefully it never comes up. The civil costs are financially ruinous to incur in either case.
     
  9. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hey man, that is my opinion.....u don't see me getting pissed off at you with what you have to say...... you wanna be the marine hero..... go right ahead and i can respect that...... but i got my gun to protect myself and loved ones.... i am not trying to be a cop because you know when you go to court over a shooting they will try to make you look like the biggest public enemy. We the concealed carriers are already catching a lot of crap for legally owning our guns...... Am i gonna stand around and watch a fellow human being get slaughtered? probably not, but i will only intervene if i can do so safely. Things aren't what they used to be..... there is more evil out there and if your a good citizen and no criminal background, my opinion is that you should be armed to protect yourself. If you don't like guns or are a brain washed sheep then you just don't have that extra edge to protect yourself if S hits the fan. Just because you pack doesn't mean you will always end up on top...... so in conclusion maybe you should be pissed at the thugs who don't give a hoot about the law.... the politicians who are trying to take my right and your right to own guns.
     
  10. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I too feel the same way as you do CORRECTTHOUGHT..... but i am sure that some people on here are gonna try and make me look like a bad guy because i won't just jump in and start shooting because i see a shooting. Well what if that shooter is an off duty police? what if that shooter was defending his/her life..... I don't feel safe just shooting someone not knowing what the situation is. I have been trained to take a minute and see what is going on, to avoid tunnel vision and to hurry into assumptions, after all that is how innocent people get hurt. We are all different and have different opinions and we need to respect that. :thumbup:
     
  11. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    I will lay down my life to protect my friends and family because One laid down his life to save me.

    Would I protect a stranger? Only time will tell.
     
  12. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I for one do not believe a person needs to just jump in with guns a-blazing. But what would someone do in a situation.

    Examples:
    You walk around a corner and a old man or old women say in their 80's is being beat up by a guy in his 20's. Intervene?

    You drive by a traffic stop and see a couple guys beating up a LEO that seems to be unconscious on the ground. Intervene?

    You are driving threw a neighborhood and see a man repeatedly stabbing a women. Intervene?

    The Examples can go on and on. The point I am making is that "sheepdogs" like myself would intervene. We might die trying to help but we couldn't just turn and walk away. Those three examples above require only 1 of 2 choices. Help or do not help.

    You don't always have to jump in with guns a-blazing to help others. How would anyone feel if they needed help and people just turned away from helping you? Some people will give their live to protect the others.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  13. tattoo

    tattoo NorthWest Active Member

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    biggie. This is the USA. We can all have our opinions. If I was not willing to get involved in situations that didn't directly involve my family, then I would not of JOINED the Marines. Situation awareness. Jump in and start shooting with out knowing the situation? NOT!! MARINE HERO? No. Just a proud former Marine. Willing to help, and possibly die, where needed, like all of my former Marines before me. I guess that has helped make me the person I am. Help, don't help? Your choice. My path is clear to me. And I will be proud of it.
     
  14. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well i can respect that tattoo........ i didn't mean to sound cold hearted and i would help someone in need.... i guess the way i looked at it was that if people have an issue with me having a gun then the heck with them and i am wrong about that because no one..... dumb...brain washed ......stupid or whatever deserve to be killed or beaten up...... not if i can help it. I guess i have seen too many people assume things about me.....treating me bad assuming i was a bad guy because i was open carrying, so
    PHP:
    i figured well if something happend to them that's TOO BAD.....they should have been nice and then i would help them or something. That is not how a sheepdog thinks and that's not who i am. Bottom line for me is that.....i would take the time (if possible) to observe the situation and do the best i can and try or hope i don't get killed because a dead me can't help those in need...... and no i am not saying that u or any other sheepdog would just jump in...... i would just hate to get shot and or killed by friendly fire and i think that is one of the big things that scare me, not to mention getting sued......having to deal with the judicial system etc. We have to take all that into concideration. We get enough crap as it is being legal and licensed weapon carriers/owners....... there is always that what if....... in court u know they will turn everything around and try to punish u for doing the right thing...... well u were looking for trouble or u should have waited for the LEOs or ur life wasn't in danger and on and on.........i have heared of some very good people getting screwed for doing the right thing.......your life could be destroyed just because u did the right thing........a lot of S to consider...... u hold someone's life in your hands when you decide to get involved in a bad situation and even tho u did the right thing the chance of u getting screwed is there and that would put doubts in the back of my mind. But it is a double edge soward too....... a lot of what i said would go out the window if it was a friend or family or a loved one. My gun is to protect me and mine..... and having to protect a strainger is what makes it real hard for me.
     
  15. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    That is a great article, I have read it before and passed it on to others.

    Remember the "Sheepdog" is the one with the element of surprise in his/her favor. He/she is the one in the middle of the flock of "sheep" with the hidden weapon and some ability to react. The "Wolf" has no knowledge of who the Sheepdog is where he/she is or if he/she is present at all.

    In a restaurant, in the mall, at Starbucks, or during a Sunday Church Service the "sheepdog" who is semi-smart cannot be identified, but can wait for an opportunity to react. The "wolf" can't watch everyone, so you may be given the blessing of being the one to save the lives of those you love and others. Its not a matter of becoming a hero its a matter of changing the odds and blocking the Wolf!
     
  16. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Good post longcolt. :thumbup:
     
  17. BroncoFan

    BroncoFan Eastern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    +1 Dyjital
    John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
    I only hope that if I am in a position to help those who cannot help themselves I act and think clearly and with a servant's attitude; regardless of the situation. If ignorance were a litmus test for who are friends are my guess is that we'd ALL be a lot more lonely. :)
     
  18. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I couldn't sit back and do nothing either. If the situation is clear I would intervene even if they were perfect strangers. On the other hand if it's unclear I would take cover and protect myself and mine. Even if I did intervene I would not go guns a blazing into it. Hopefully it would be resolved without a shot fired by anyone.

    I imagine this senerio:

    24 hour quicky mart gas station. I'm in back looking for something to quench my thirst (I love gatorade) because I've been on the road for a long time. Armed robber runs in, points a gun at the clerk, and demands cash. I'd probably cover, draw, and then yell "PUT THE GUN DOWN!". What happens next is up to the robber. If he turns the gun on me I'll drop him. If he runs I'll let him leave. If he puts the gun down I'll tell him/her to lay face down and hold him until police arrive. Probably tie his hands behind his back and holster my gun.

    My guess is most 2 bit criminals will run. All of the possibilities have good out comes though in my opinion. Nobody gets hurt except for the bad guy but only if he makes me shoot.

    You might ask why I would react this way. Some armed robbers shoot the clerk and anybody else that they find in the store even after getting the loot. I've been way to close to that senerio before. No thanks, I'm not going to sit back and hope the bad guy doesn't shoot up the store. I think it would hurt me more to watch a good person die at the hands of a bad person knowing full well I might have been able to prevent it.

    Does that make me a sheepdog? I don't know and I don't really care but I won't sit back and let good people die at the hands of bad people if I can help it.

    FWIW I too got my CHL to protect myself, family, and friends primarily but I know now that I would protect perfect strangers in bad situations if I had to.

    I know full well I'm no LEO and would never go looking for trouble or purposely put myself in a dangerous situation but if trouble finds me I would not hesitate to defend the inocent.
     
  19. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Two things to remember here folks.
    1) The sheepdog makes the sheep nervous too. That's how (s)he's able to herd them.
    2) Most of us have our own little herd. How far you extend yours is up to you. Mine would most likely include my neighbors. They're good folks that don't deserve to have me turn a blind eye to someone climbing in their back window. Especially when a 9-1-1 call and a shotgun will prevent their loss.

    One doesn't need to be a "Rambo" to be a sheepdog, just an armed citizen with a sense of duty toward humanity and their friends and neighbors. Even if the only "arm" you are carrying is a cell phone.
    The examples of victimization posted above should inspire anyone with a sense of fair play in life.
     
  20. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Good post NK777.